Lookie Lookie What I Found!

[Mage]

First of all, I'll introduce myself. I'm not as big a fan of Pern as I used to be, but still have enough interest to keep track of new books and other developments. This is my first post, and I made this account for the sole purpose of sharing what I found with you folk. That's not to say this will be my only post, although I'm more likely to be a logged-in lurker, most of the time.

Now, for the goodie: http://www.fahrenheitdigital.com/bios/james.php

Looking at the site, every other image is commercial. The Dragonriders image reminds me of the fuzzy WIP from the TV show that never aired, but isn't quite the same. It could be a side-project, something personal that James Jacobs or someone else with that company decided to do for fun. What it particularly reminds me of is the Ramoth sculptures a while back, with a little of the cover art for Chronicles of Pern thrown in for good measure.

I posted it here because, having found that image, I thought it might have something to do with another TV or movie project. Then I discovered that, yes, there is a Pern movie (or series of movies) being optioned. I concluded that this might be some preliminary concept CGI work for that movie. It also might not, so don't get your hopes up. The one thing that makes me doubt it's just a personal work is the lack of a registered trademark symbol, so I lean toward it being from the TV show or new work for the movie.

The dragon doesn't look extremely "Pernese" to me, and I'm not even 100% sure what color it is. I'm guessing bronze, but it might be a brown or even a gold. Since the image uses realistic colors, it's hard for me to say.

So, anyway, what do you guys think? Is this a preliminary for the movie, or is this a leftover from the show that never came to be? Does it bear any resemblance of all to the concept art you've seen? I never got to see that art.

[Sharzei!]

...

Ew.

Ew, please no. Please no.

[Kaoru]

Is there an eye-twitch smilie? No? Alrighty then.

-right eye pops out after a spazzing fit-

Yet that picture still isn't as bad as the artwork done a few years back on the young adult Dragonflight paperback. True, one may be on film soon, but the other is still burned into the back of my mind.

4186

Edit: Just checked out the CGI again. Is it just me, or does it remind you of... Oh, what were they, the little dinosaurs that Duckie and her family are from in The Land Before Time?

[Kath]

Interesting.

It doesn't look a lot like the recent concept art - but does anyone have any images from the earlier TV almost-production?

[Mage]

I have the WIP that was on the TV show site on my computer. The dragon's profile looks similar, but that WIP appeared to have frills or something at the back of the head. Basically I have no clue if this might be from the TV show or movie. That's why I came to you fine folks to ask!

As for this, well, come on, guys, it's not THAT bad. The eyes would probably need to be changed, and it would need headknobs and likely a longer neck with neck-ridges. Other than that, it looks pretty realistic. It's not the way I'd have designed a dragon, but it's not the worst possible one, either. Someone else's vision of Pern won't necessarily be that of any of us.

[Ryuu]

Not bad as a preliminary, but he definitely needs to fix her eyes and skin color (the caption does read it's supposed to be Ramoth). It doesn't show the end of her tail, so we can't tell if it's properly forked or improperly spaded :shrug:

Given that WETA did such a good job with LotR, we can only hope that Copperheart hires them to do the CGI work :yes:

Folks should keep in mind that "preliminary workups" are just that: preliminary -- and that they're subject to change as productions get closer to their actual production starts.

[C_ris]

Ew. Just ew.

[Ryuu]

Ew. Just ew.What's wrong with her? Even if she's not yet Pernese, I'd fly her :razz:

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

This looks more like something in a Disney/Pixar movie, not anything that would be integrated into live action. However, anything on a Pern movie would be VERY early, so there's definitely time for them to fix many, many things, or create an entirely new design.

I'm always interested in seeing other's artistic works in Pern, and it's DEFINITELY not the worst. But if this guy is working with an actual studio on Pern, it could be much, MUCH better. However, since all the other images are from actual movies, personal work seems a bit out of place. And since he's working with Weta now, this is VERY good news! They don't fail to deliver.

Needs headknobs, ridges, wing-shoulder a bit further back so that there's room for flight muscles, and more muscled wing limbs, bigger faceted eyes, another finger and a thumb on each hand, larger wings and membrane that reaches as far back as the hip, and no white on the chest and stomach!!! :eek:

[Ryuu]

This looks more like something in a Disney/Pixar movie, not anything that would be integrated into live action. However, anything on a Pern movie would be VERY early, so there's definitely time for them to fix many, many things, or create an entirely new design.

I'm always interested in seeing other's artistic works in Pern, and it's DEFINITELY not the worst. But if this guy is working with an actual studio on Pern, it could be much, MUCH better. However, since all the other images are from actual movies, personal work seems a bit out of place. And since he's working with Weta now, this is VERY good news! They don't fail to deliver.

Needs headknobs, ridges, wing-shoulder a bit further back so that there's room for flight muscles, and more muscled wing limbs, bigger faceted eyes, another finger and a thumb on each hand, larger wings and membrane that reaches as far back as the hip, and no white on the chest and stomach!!! :eek:In addition to having something to guage her size...as a comment by Kieth Parkenson on one of his dragons (http://www.fantasygallery.com/store/catalog/884.jpg), "rocks and dragon come in all sizes, but cyottes come in only one size" ;) (note: the cyotte is under his right hand)

...:erm:...but then again, Lessa being rather short (that little pebble by Ramoth's foot is probably her) -- still won't give us an idea just how big the dragon is.... :whistle:

[Mage]

No matter how intensely you follow the Pernese dragon description, it's not likely to be followed to perfection. Even if that is a work in progress for the movie, and we have no reason yet to believe it could be, as there was a TV show in the works some years back and it could be a leftover from that. It does in fact follow a lot of Pernese standards even though it doesn't meet them all by any stretch. The head is wedge-shaped, the coloring is mottled, it has eyeridges, its forelegs are considerably shorter than its hindlegs...

If this is for the Pern movie, which isn't even likely to be released until 2008, I doubt if the dragon models are anywhere near finished yet. If they aren't, then it's no cause for concern yet. I doubt it will be made to perfectly match fans' standards anyway, due to cinematic and artistic reasons. I used to be a huge fan of Pern, so I know exactly how you feel. I know that it bothers you that Anne has laid out precisely how dragons should look, yet nobody seems to ever have gotten it right. I know you want someone to follow Anne's instructions to the letter. However, you should be far more worried over characterization than the appearance of the dragons or characters. For example, what does it matter if Ramoth looks perfect when Lessa has suddenly been turned into a sweet, charming little pushover?

That Pern is on its way to the big screen at all is a good thing for the franchise, because if the movie's good, it'll be a huge draw for new readers and will breathe a lot of life into the fandom. Let's face it, there aren't enough Pern fans to carry a film on their own, and Pern's not terribly cinematic in nature. Things will have to be changed, probably even the dragons' appearance, so that it's more appealing to a general audience. That said, if the dragon's appearance on that page bothers some of you that badly, there's probably a contact button you can use to give pointers. I don't advise it because it's likely to be taken badly, and I'm sure the guy is busy.


Edit: I also don't see any caption where it says this is Ramoth. Where are you guys seeing that?

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

It probably won't even be as early as 2008. All they have are the rights, they don't have a script, director, or anything, really (if recent reports are accurate.) So it probably won't be until 2009 at the earliest.

But this early, concept art can go through DRASTIC changes. I would be utterly SHOCKED if they had settled on even a basic design yet. Hell, they changed the final design for Gollum in LotR right in the middle of production!

I can pretty much guarantee that this design won't be used, even if it really is a genuine design for a movie. I don't expect EVERY detail to be followed in the books, (because let's face it, there's a lot of contradictory material) but I DO expect that the main guidelines are followed as closely as possible. Otherwise it's just not Pernese. Suede-like skin, NO scales, neck/tail ridges, headknobs, faceted eyes, wedge-shaped head (equine is more accurate) and the basic size range, 20-60 feet, stretching it.

Everyone's vision of Pernese dragons WILL NOT be satisfied, because everyone has different visions. There is still very much room for interpretation even within the strict descriptions.

[Mage]

I say wedge-shaped only because that's how it is always described in the books. Also in the early books, at least, they've got beaks! Yet their muzzles are soft; it makes no sense. Hasn't Anne said at some point that her dragons don't have beaks, though? Aaaargh.

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Yup, that's what I meant by contradictions. In DF they even had sharp-pointed ears and scales, and greens were male! And Ramoth was practically a freakin' elephant when she hatched. In Dragonflight she was still building her world, so there are some discrepancies. It wasn't until the DragonQuest at least that she started to iron things out more smoothly.

And it's not specifically mentioned in the books that their heads are equine-like, you're right in that it only says they're wedge-shaped. But in interviews she's said they're more like horses in some respects.

[Mage]

Ramoth, I thought, was only as big as Lessa's torso at hatching. I may be wrong.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure they had beaks up until White Dragon, and scales until Dragonsong.

But back on topic, I'm still curious if anybody else has seen that caption? I'd also be very interested if anybody here could confirm where the image came from. Is it a preliminary piece for the film that, as Bronze-Dragonrider said, and as I already knew, isn't even scripted/directed yet? Or is it a leftover from the TV show that never came to be? Although I know the other stuff on that page seems recent, 2001 wasn't that long ago either.

[Kath]

Anyway, I'm pretty sure they had beaks up until White Dragon, and scales until Dragonsong.



"Calling Aurelia to the dragon-shaped courtesy phone"

Any chance of a quick quote-search, oh quote-queen?


But back on topic, I'm still curious if anybody else has seen that caption?

Nothing on the page that I can see other than "Dragonriders of Pern" and pern_02.jpg. Site searching of the domain doesn't bring up any specific references to Ramoth either.

[Ryuu]

There was mention of patchy scales that resulted from not oiling the growing dragons enough, but that's not something to be considered "inconsistant" with the dragons' decriptions.

I'm wondering if the site page is still being edited -- I could swear that it said "Ramoth" in the highlight/popup box when I looked at it earlier this morning, but now says "Dragonriders of Pern" :shrug: If this is so, then this might very well be the current project and not somethnig left over from WB's aborted TV show.

[Mage]

I only ever saw "Dragonriders of Pern" on the caption, even when I found it, but it might have said Ramoth at some point.

Also, on the issue with dragons having scales in the Harperhall Trilogy, I'm sure that there was some mention of Menolly grasping onto the scaled neck or something. I don't feel like digging through there to find the ref myself. Yes, it's a short book, but there are also a lot of words to dig through.

Regardless, I'm hoping someone can come up with confirmation that this is either the movie or the TV show. Nobody here might be able to offer that confirmation, but I'm hoping! If it's from the TV show, it's probably a finalized version of what their dragons would have looked like. If the movie, far from final.

[Ryuu]

I only ever saw "Dragonriders of Pern" on the caption, even when I found it, but it might have said Ramoth at some point.

Also, on the issue with dragons having scales in the Harperhall Trilogy, I'm sure that there was some mention of Menolly grasping onto the scaled neck or something. I don't feel like digging through there to find the ref myself. Yes, it's a short book, but there are also a lot of words to dig through.ChrisG might have an electronic version for a quick lookup. He seems to be in here more often now ;)

Regardless, I'm hoping someone can come up with confirmation that this is either the movie or the TV show. Nobody here might be able to offer that confirmation, but I'm hoping! If it's from the TV show, it's probably a finalized version of what their dragons would have looked like. If the movie, far from final.This is true.

Unfortunately, there's been very little released from either project. The aborted WB project was just a couple days from principle filming when they canxed it over a character change dispute with Ron Moore, so their material and dragon designs should have been finallized. But other than a promo pic of Anne riding a mechanized saddle and a rendering of a blurry-long distance view on a dragon (again, without rider), we've not seen squat from it :no:

The current project is just as tightlipped...no mention of progress, how much of the WB material might get incorporated, no mention of who's going to play what, no mention of time frame the story will be set in -- nothing :banghead:

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Ramoth, I thought, was only as big as Lessa's torso at hatching. I may be wrong.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure they had beaks up until White Dragon, and scales until Dragonsong.

But back on topic, I'm still curious if anybody else has seen that caption? I'd also be very interested if anybody here could confirm where the image came from. Is it a preliminary piece for the film that, as Bronze-Dragonrider said, and as I already knew, isn't even scripted/directed yet? Or is it a leftover from the TV show that never came to be? Although I know the other stuff on that page seems recent, 2001 wasn't that long ago either.
Since no one really knows much of anything other than the very few photos released, I don't think there's a way to determine where it came from, unless you ask him, or if it has a copyright date on it... I would GUESS that it's a new preliminary, since nothing came of the old TV show and there's not really a reason to showcase something that never came to fruition. If it IS a leftover from the tv show, I'd think it's a preliminary even for that, since the one photo they released still looks more realistic.

Actually, it was Ramoth's head that was as big as Lessa's torso, I just exaggerated a bit :laugh: It was Ruth that was as big as Jaxom's torso, which, at that age, was really very small. And the only time it mentions them having beaks was at hatching, from Dragonflight through to TWD. But since it only mentions beaks at hatching, and never in adulthood maybe it's something like an equivalent to an egg-tooth? Perhaps it softens after hatching :shrug:

The only mention of scales I can find is in Dragonflight, with dragons' "neck scales" and the watch-wher being scaled.


There was mention of patchy scales that resulted from not oiling the growing dragons enough, but that's not something to be considered "inconsistant" with the dragons' decriptions.

I'm wondering if the site page is still being edited -- I could swear that it said "Ramoth" in the highlight/popup box when I looked at it earlier this morning, but now says "Dragonriders of Pern" :shrug: If this is so, then this might very well be the current project and not somethnig left over from WB's aborted TV show.

Patchy scales - pretty much flaking, which even humans can get - are completely different to actual scales, such as a crocodile. You're right, not inconsistent at all.

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

But other than a promo pic of Anne riding a mechanized saddle and a rendering of a blurry-long distance view on a dragon (again, without rider), we've not seen squat from it :no:

The current project is just as tightlipped...no mention of progress, how much of the WB material might get incorporated, no mention of who's going to play what, no mention of time frame the story will be set in -- nothing :banghead:

Actually, it DID have a rider ;) In the TV/film introduction section of this (http://www.rukbat3.co.uk/) site, it has that picture.

And the reason we've heard nothing about it, is because nothing significant HAS happened. I think they only thing being done now is concept art. There COULD be something else going on, but until they actually get a green-light on the project, they can't do anything major.

[Ryuu]

Actually, it DID have a rider ;) In the TV/film introduction section of this (http://www.rukbat3.co.uk/) site, it has that picture.

And the reason we've heard nothing about it, is because nothing significant HAS happened. I think they only thing being done now is concept art. There COULD be something else going on, but until they actually get a green-light on the project, they can't do anything major.You've still got that link? :bouncy:

nevermind...I was asking the instant you posted your edited :D

[Ryuu]

Okay, that might be about the right size for a bronze enhanced native :yes:

[Mage]

The movie could be past the optioning stage now, theoretically. It's been a while since we heard that news. It could be, should this image not be from the show that was planned, that it is instead something to show Anne to convince her that *insert company name here* is serious, and she should let them have the film rights.

[C_ris]

It's just that that pic looks like a dinosaur with wings. Which is NOT a dragon, let alone Pernese dragon!

[Kaoru]

I e-mailed the creator via the site's "Contact" button. Here's the response:

Hello.

Aaron passed your email on to me regarding
the Dragonriders of Pern image.

The image is from a test for a television pilot that
I had worked on while working for CommandPost/Toybox
(now a division of Technicolour) back in 2000.
The test was never completed, as the project went away
before it ever really got started - there was some
sort of a disagreement between the production company
and the film studio.

-breathes a sigh of relief-

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Huh, guess I was wrong :laugh: Thanks!

[Kaoru]

Happy to help.

Happier that the picture's not what they're working with currently. :D

[Lessaruatha]

me too!

[Mage]

I'm glad you got that confirmation. I did think it resembled the TV show's work-in-progress dragon, so this information makes sense.