A newbie repeats an old question.....What does Zainal look like?

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

I found this forum by googling Anne McCaffrey's books, and was amazed to find posts discussing the very question that has bothered me since I got turned on to the "Freedom" series of books! I am sad to see that the posts were dated so long ago, and I hope that perhaps I can stir up new interest, or at least discover what final conclusions the members decided on, regarding Zainal's appearance. I too was confused by the teensy weensy little figure on the book cover of Freedom's Landing, when compared to the none-too-complete descriptions of the character in the text.

My daughter has been a McCaffrey fan for years, and has almost all of her books, but this Freedom series was the first I'd read; and I loved them.....
also feeling that there is still a lot of rich material that could be tapped for further stories....alas, however that may never be.

I hope to get some replies to this post!

[Faren]

Welcome to the board, Freedom. :wave: This question has been discussed in this thread..http://annemccaffreyfans.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4540 .
Someone did some great artwork too if I can find that. May be in the thread I just linked.

Anyway, I agree with you that the Freedom series cries out for another one (or two) books. My biggest question is about the Farmers. I really want to know more about them. And I think Zainal does too. ;)

[Jax]

Yeah who wouldn't love to see more from the Freedom series :cool:

I think my mind has gone over some details so many times I can't remember what the image in my head looks like anymore :roll:

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Thanks for the welcome people! I know what you mean Jax, about losing focus .....it's like you get after looking at wallpaper books for about 3 hours!

Since I make and collect dolls, I was hoping to solidify an image in my mind, and try to customize a couple of 12", high quality action figures to resemble the characters, and dress them in the coveralls as per book description. I thought they'd look like military issue.

I've read all the posts on Zainal's description, and checked out all the art work. It is all very good, but still not exactly what I see in my mind's eye.
But then, that is the miracle, and the wonder of books without illustrations..
......they let the mind make it's own pictures!

Faren, Jax, you're absolutely correct. We need more Farmer info!!!

[B`dgyr]

Agreed. More Freedom books. But not sucky ones like Ransom. Sorry, y'all, I hated that book. I skimmed it....I, who love the MistressHarper, SKIMMED it. The only other books by her that I don't really care for are the Acorna series.
Lets find the Farmers!

[Faren]

I totally agree about the Acorna books. I made it through the first 4 or 5, but the last couple I couldn't do it. Tried to read the first chapter and just...yuck. :sorry: Too juvenile, and the names are too hard to try to pronounce in my head.

Zainal, time to climb in your ship and go searching!

[Tony]

This is the front of the game; Freedom - first resistance.
I think it looks pretty much how I imagined him.

http://www.byphotos.com/album/album_photo.html?c_photo=91340914

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Hmmm... despite him being alien, I always thought he was supposed to be somewhat attractive. I just can't see Kris getting all hot n' bothered over a guy looking like the one on that cover :erm:

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

I picture Zainal as somewhat similar to the dude at the bottom of this (http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/6003/turnerwizcov3du.jpg) picture, but without all the spots, and with facial features like David Boreanez.

[Faren]

Well, I think that "guy" is a lot less attractive than the fellow on the Freedom game. :crazy: I always pictured Zainal as humanoid, just on a larger scale.

[Lady Faizah]

I picture Zainal as somewhat similar to the dude at the bottom of this (http://img434.imageshack.us/img434/6003/turnerwizcov3du.jpg) picture, but without all the spots, and with facial features like David Boreanez.

I agree with the David Boreanaz part. Never thought about it like that, but... yeah. I can see that.

But I also think, like Faren, that he looks 'human, but bigger', more solidly built, more muscle, etc... Also, I kind of imagined him with a slight greenish tint to his skin, and much tougher skin, but I'm not sure whether that's from the books or my imagination.

[Faren]

http://imdb.com/gallery/scrapbook/60/Sbk/60/6033200_2_7.jpg.html?hint=nm0004770

I had to look up a pic of him...I'm terrible with names. :roll: I can go with that. Faizah, I picture him with a greenish-yellow tinted skin too, and tougher than human skin.

[Lady Faizah]

:shhh: I have three David Boreanaz posters up in my room. :shhh:

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

I'm pretty sure that Zainal's species (I can't even remember the name :blush:) has greyish skin. They may very will have different tints to their skin, but grey is predominant. And I guess I'm just partial to more alien figures/looks. A very basic humanoid structure, but just looking more... alien. I never liked the idea in all the sci-fi shows and books with all the species looking the same except for a few features.

[Lady Faizah]

I never liked the idea in all the sci-fi shows and books with all the species looking the same except for a few features.

But didn't you hear? Zainal is just David Boreanaz in vampire make-up. :angel:

:runaway:

[Apocalypse]

I'm watching 'The Rock' on tv (the person, not the Sean Connery movie) and I think, with some serious make-up, he's the guy for the job! :laugh: He's enormous!

[Dawn]

I agree, Apo. :ok: The Rock (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0425005/) works for me too. I can just see him standing there stone-faced with his arms crossed making the Catteni go around him. :laugh:

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

But he can't act! :crazy:

[Apocalypse]

And Zainal will require great acting skill, will he? :suspic:

"I drop, I stay!"

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

You guys are making it tough on the ol' dollmaker here! How the frell am I ever going to put an action figure together that conforms to what everybody thinks? This is great! Ideas are flying!
"Freedom's Landing" does say the skin is grey (and kind of silky), the hair is thick. Zainal is supposed to have a narrow, "patrician" (Roman) nose, and be "almost handsome, for a Catteni."
The short story, "The Thorns of Barevi" says his skin is "olive toned."
Maybe that's where the idea of yellow-green skin came from?
I just got the game off Ebay, and YEEP! That Catteni on the game box cover
looks like what I pictured the Rassi to look like.....one step above an animal. I sort of imagined that the caste system of Catteni jumped each class up the evolutionary ladder by a couple of leaps for each class;
Drassi looks better than Rassi, and Emassi look pretty good, etc. Of course, Zainal being an exceptionally good looking one. I guess we need the body of The Rock, with Duncan MacLeod's head and pony tail. (MY choice).
David Boreanaz would be okay too, but to me, Adrian Paul is more classically "patrician" and can make a really good scowl! But then....put a pony tail on The Rock, give him yellow contacts and paint him grey, and......who CARES if he can ACT? Comments?

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Trust me... even for a man of few words, you need someone who can act. A good actor makes the difference between meaningful and complete corn-fest.

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Very true Bronze Dragonrider, and if we were casting a movie, I would defer to you completely! I'm just trying to customize some action figures as best I can, to make 3D illustrations from the book; therefore I am somewhat limited in what materials I can use, and how much I can tweek an existing figure. I'm asking for images and opinions to put together a notebook, from which I will come up with an image I can work with. Hopefully, it will look somewhat like our Zainal SHOULD look.

Speaking of casting a movie......wouldn't it be great if they made one?
Zainal and Kris find the Farmers? As long as we're playing the "supposing" game, if WE were casting a movie, what would the farmers really look like, and who would you cast for Kris, Zainal, Chuck Mitford, and a few others of the main characters? (CGI for the Deskis and Rugarians of course.)

[Dux]

Why do all the alien pics of Zainel that you guys have suggested all look "cat-ish". I don't remember any mention in the books of that. Heightwise, he's probably about 6. He's taller than Kris who, I think, described herself as tall for a girl (5'10?). Drassi would be just a bit shorter - tall humans were too tall to impersonate them - stockier 5'9 - 5'10 was about right. He has gray skin, yellow eyes, gray hair (that's what was silky, I thought, not the skin). The patrician nose and a very built body. I figure they must look very humanoid because there are references to other human females thinking Zainel as being attractive, for a Catteni, and I just don't see human females being attracted to something that was not humanoid.

[Apocalypse]

I was always under the impression that his eyes were cat-like and the rest of him was Pro-Wrestler... :laugh:

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Since I have just finished reading all four books, I went back into book one to check a few facts. Quotes from pg.8.."his yellow eyes gleamed at her in the gloom"......"He's like a great lion. Kris thought".... If you look at a picture of a lion's eyes you will see what is meant by this comment. Lion's eyes are a golden yellow, and they don't really look much like those of other big cats. But that is the ONLY reference I can find that even suggests his appearance is cat-like.

I apologize Dux, it was the hair that was silky.

But Apocalypse, on pg.207, when Kris was checking out an unconscious Zainal after the thorn incident..."He wasn't quite as heavily muscled as she'd thought, with the bulky coverall disguising a body that, by any standards, was beautiful."..(so maybe a pro-wrestler he isn't?)....and...
"She smoothed back his silky gray hair, as fine as a baby's."...and...
"Yes, decidedly he was several castes above the average male mercenary. She was so accustomed to the look of him now, that he didn't even seem alien anymore."

Dux, you're the winner! :applause:

Zainal is just a very good looking well built man with gray skin and hair, and the eyes of a lion! :heart:

I think the name "Catteni" was what suggested, in the minds of many, (mostly cover artists for books and game boxes, who probablly never even read the books,) that they LOOKED cat-like. Rassi and Drassi, more brutish
perhaps, but men nonetheless, and not cats. The colonists could not have impersonated them otherwise, with only yellow contact lenses and gray skin and hair dye.

Gawd! I'm glad that's settled!

[Dux]

:laugh:

It probably helps that I just reread the series a couple of weeks ago. Well, not the whole series as book four just gets on my nerves.

[Apocalypse]

So which action figure are you using as the base? :D Maybe he looks more like a professional athlete then? But not those huge defensive line-backer types....?

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Well.......I just got my on-line order in the mail yesterday, so tomorrow, heads are going to roll....literally. I ordered the USC Football player made by Dragon Models. He is definitely an athlete, but more a running back than a linebacker, and about half a head taller than the usual 1/6 scale Dragon soldier bodies. His head is coming off. I ordered several other Dragon guys whose heads looked like they could be candidates for Zainal (with some tweeking and a good repaint job.) I'll futz around with them, until I narrow it down to one.

THEN comes the not-so-fun part. I have to spray paint the head and body with plastic primer, then a nice smooth coat of light gray. Once that is done, with no globs or runs, and good and dry, I have to decide whether to use acrylics or oil paints to do the features and shadings; ending up with a sealer coat of matte finish lacquer or acrylic spray paint.
Pony tail or no pony tail? What do you think? (That didn't show up until book two.) Last but not least, comes the costuming and accessories; boots, knives, etc.

Provided the first one turns out well, I will attempt to do Kris, Chuck Mitford and a number of other characters, and build a rather large diorama,
using quite a few of the main characters. This is gonna take some time!

But I promise, that if it all works out, I will take pictures with my new digital camera, and find somebody to help me figure out how to post them.
(I'm a good artist/craftsperson, but I do NOT get along with technical stuff and I DESPISE reading manuals!) I will be happy to receive any ideas any of you may have regarding the characters, which characters you fellow forum members think are essential, the background for the diorama, etc.
So put your thinking caps on and make notes. Thanks!

[Brenda]

I always picture Zainal as not just tall, but large. Very muscled, very bulky. A large head.

[Dux]

ponytail, or no ponytail...hmmmmm

don't know. I always picture him without out, but that's just me.

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Dux, I know book 2 says he has a pony tail, which Kris offered to braid like an American Indian, (which he refused) but I think I have to go with you one this one. IT'S TOO DARNED HARD TO FIND A HEAD WITH A PONY TAIL!

Brenda, I know what you're envisioning, but the only commercially produced 12" 1/6 scale action figure bodies I have to choose from that fit that description, would be either "The Thing" from the Fantastic Four, or "The incredible Hulk".......and I'm NOT going there!:laugh:

[Brenda]

Okay, I didn't catch that you were limited like that!

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Yeah, that's my big problem; I have to work with what's commercially available. I wish I had a studio, and all the stuff to go with it, and I might be able to sculpt something myself( however, it might come out LOOKING like "The Blob" anyway!).....but since I don't and I can't....I have to settle for what I can readily get ahold of, and that puts my choices down to a rather small number. Like, I can pad the coverall somewhat, but the size of his head will just have to be what it is.:banghead:

[Dux]

Yep - he definitely had a ponytail in book two, at the least.

If it makes you feel better, he would have had to cut it off the minute they started raiding off-planet. So he was probably ponytail-less for more of the series than ponytail-full.

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Hey, I never thought of that, Dux! You're right! I remember that it was suggested that he "slump" (because of his height) to immitate a Drassi Captain as well. Yup, yup. Had to have had a haircut, because in book three, Kris had to cut her hair too. Thanks for bringing that little detail to my attention. Whew! No ponytail it is! :laugh:

[Dux]

:laugh:

Now...you do plan to take pics so we can see this when you're done? Or even as you do it? :puppyeyes

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Hi, Dux! Yes, I will try to do the picture thing. (Refer to the last paragraph of my post #28 on that subject!) It may be a couple of weeks before I actually get started, because I'm still waiting for a couple of online orders of heads, boots, hands, and other odd piecy-parts before I can really get going. However, I AM going to start making patterns for coveralls, and try to decide what I want my Catteni uniforms to look like. The book says they were yellow and gray, and not much else about them. The game has another idea of what they should be.

I always pictured the Catteni Emassi uniforms sort of similar to a WWII German officer's outfit; gray pants, the tops stuffed into high black jack boots, a jacket with a high collar, belted at the waist, length just about mid-thigh, with braid on the coat sleeves and on the mandarin style collar.
Maybe an officer's cap with front bill, and possibly some kind of shoulder boards or epaulets. Jacket would be a golden yellow color, trimmed in black
This isn't written in blood yet, but I'm open to opinions and suggestions.
(Drassi would have similar outfits, but looser, tunic type jackets, something like the illustrations on the PC game box, with less decoration than the Emassi's.) Tell me what you think?

Off the subject a bit, has anybody read the Doona or Rowan series? Which do you think I ought to read next?.....knowing how nuts I am about the Freedom series.

Tomorrow I get out the pattern making materials and start with the coveralls.

[Dux]

The Talent Series is the one I recommend. After Pern, that is Anne's most popular series and is very good. Connected to that series is the Pegasus series. There are 3 books that take place approximately 4oo years before The Rowan - but they aren't as good (IMO). Start with The Rowan.

I never really thought about the Catteni uniforms, other than they would be very...regimental (for lack of a better word). Your description sounds good to me. We know that medals/honors/braids on the uniforms were very important - the Catteni were very aware of rank. I think Book three even mentions something about shoulder braids, at the end when they can't figure out where to pin the rank jewels on Chuck and the others.

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Thanks Dux. For the book advice as well as the uniform comments. I'll start tracking down The Rowan series first. (I know my daughter won't send me hers to read! She guards all her books with a shotgun!)

I'll re-read the last part of book 3 again, then pull out my sketch book. You're probablly correct.....the more gobbly-gunk on the uniform, the higher the rank. I can do that! Pattern making day today. Chat later.:help:

[Faren]

I dunno Dux...I really enjoyed the Pegasus books as the prequel to the Rowan. Just being devil's advocate here. :devil:

FF, when you are ready to take pics, just ask and I'm sure someone from here can guide you through posting them. Lol..a lot of my computer knowledge has come from members here. :d

[Brenda]

I think I started reading the Rowan series, then went back and read Pegasus... Either way's good. Although I don't think it was 400 years in between :erm:

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Thanks to all of you regarding the book suggestions......guess I'll just have to read them all!
Yes Dux, book three said shoulder "tabs" on the Catteni uniforms, but what the heck, gold braid would be good too, on the highest ranking ones. As long as I'm making these up, why not go for the gusto?

I'm re-reading for nitzy details, and book 4 (yes, I know not everybody liked book 4) describes Kris and Zainal and others wearing regular clothes on Botany. Here's my dilemma; do I make coveralls, uniforms, regular outfits, or all of the above and change the figures to match different diorama scenes? ExCUSE me! I meant change the CLOTHES on the figures, not change the figures. Opinions please.:confused:

[Faren]

Depends on what exactly you want to do. If you want to re-create several scenes, you'll need changes of clothes...otherwise, I'd go with coveralls. :ok:

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Yes, that's the key....I have grandiose ideas. Whether or not I can do all I WANT to do is the question. BUT, I just got my sewing machine serviced and I'm raring to go, so I guess I can sew multiple outfits. I have the bodies, even if I haven't made any definite head decisions yet, so I can get going on sewing and fitting. I'll try to take some photos when I have something finished. Anybody know where I can get 1/6 scale buttons or zippers?

[Brenda]

I'd try a craft shop... maybe one aimed at people who do a lot with dolls?

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Thanks, Brenda. I wish this podunk town had a decent craft shop.....that's why I do so much web-shopping. I can check "doll making supplies" on line and see what I come up with. Good idea.:applause:

By the way, I picked up "Dragonseye" at our local used book shop, so I am reading that one a little every evening.

After re-reading book 4 of Freedom, I'm kind of irritated too. Not that I mind the story arc so much, but there are a number of inconsistancies between book 4 and the first 3. Grrrrr. The LEAST of which is that Zainal was to be subsumed by a mentat named Pe, when we all know it was Ix.
The little orphan girl's name was Maizie, and then became Daisy, rock squats were fur covered animals in book one, then became avian game birds by book 4, etc., etc.! It's the little inconsistancies that really bugged me! It was almost like somebody else wrote book 4.:banghead:

[Dux]

Not to mention how open-ended the book was.

Faren - you're right, I did color that post with my opinion about the Pegasus books. I do recommend reading them - the order of Pegauss or Talent is up to you. Either way works.

Freedom - like you, I also always picture Zainel in the coverall - I'd go with whichever is easier though. Then again, I am a lazy thing. :D

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

UPDATE: I found (on line) tiny 4" zippers, teensy wee buttons, belt buckles, snaps ,and hooks and eyes. Also teeny gold braid, etc. Put my order in and I'm waiting. I'm going with the coveralls, but also Catteni uniforms.:whistle:

[Brenda]

Hey, glad I could help!

[morrolan]

After re-reading book 4 of Freedom, I'm kind of irritated too. Not that I mind the story arc so much, but there are a number of inconsistancies between book 4 and the first 3. Grrrrr. The LEAST of which is that Zainal was to be subsumed by a mentat named Pe, when we all know it was Ix.
The little orphan girl's name was Maizie, and then became Daisy, rock squats were fur covered animals in book one, then became avian game birds by book 4, etc., etc.! It's the little inconsistancies that really bugged me! It was almost like somebody else wrote book 4.:banghead:

I just finished re-reading book 4 and I agree - there were LOTS of editing errors. I don't remember if it was in book 3 or book 4, but Coo & Pes were called Rugarians for a few chapters, then they were called Deski (they are the two main Deski characters) :(

I hate it when the editors screw up the details.....

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

NO KIDDING!!!
I've been going back through all four books, making notes, for the custom action figures I'm trying to do......and the more I re-read, the more errors I find. I think any one of us could have done a better editing job!

I've been busy trying to paint my first Catteni. No, not Zainal yet! (I'm practicing on a junky figure I had laying around...he can be Drassi or Tudo.)
The eyes are really bugging me. I'm having trouble getting them to suit me. It's not the color....but I think I need to get a 2 hair brush,..... so I can quit messing up and repainting so much. This guy is going to have so much paint built up on his eyes , he's going to be pop-eyed!:shake:

[Jax]

Can't wait to see it/him in any case :D

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Well, Jax, I hope to be able to take a picture before TOO long. I'm putting the sealer coat on the little monster tomorrow. I have to whip up a uniform before I can photograph him. (He's shy and needs to be covered!)

Please remember that this figure is just a practice run! But I do want comments from everyone (if I can get a picture posted) so that I'll know whether to keep going, or scrap the project. :klah: :yawn:

[FREEDOM FIGHTER]

Just an update; I'm working on three Catteni all at one time. I've sewn pants, and I have boots. I also have major paint problems! I've been "lurking" around a bunch of action figure customizer forums for ideas as to what's wrong with the paint I'm using.....it doesn't want to dry!

No, I haven't given up! I'm just trying to work out the kinks!:banghead:

[Dux]

So how's it going?

[Brenda]

Yeah!