Children, Infertility etc

[Jax]

Ok, not sure how to ask this, trying to do too many things at once and am tired so hope it all makes some sense!! :laugh:

Would it be immoral for a Crystal Singer to adopt a child, and bring him/her back to Ballybran? I am pretty damn sure that there are /no/ children there, what about children, who, like Donalla, had an illness that only Ballybran symbiont could cure?
I know that it's hardly fair to even try to explain it to a child, who may not care when they're a kid if they're infertile when they're older (I mean, what kid does now?) but when they do get older, and perhaps bitter - what then?

If I were a crystal singer, or other Ballybran personal, I think I would want to adopt..... but there's still the question of morality....


P.S. packing apples leaves /lots/ of time to think about stuff, or sing, you know!! :laugh:

[dae]

i don't know if the child wanted to go there no. If it were to save the childs lif but they didn't want to be saved yes. I think it depends upon what the child thinks. And how old the child is. say if the child is only like 4-8 years odl and grows up there then i don't think that they would care that they are infertial. Because thats how they have grown up and what they are used to.
hope you understand that. :D

[BD1]

Imagine a child going through Milekey Transition!!!!!!! Suddenly they can smell better, hear better, etc., before they go to the infirmary. In the book Crystal Singer, when Killashandra was experiencing enhanced senses, how did the infirmary staff KNOW when to go to killa's room???????? :confused:

[Mayhem]

How long do you think it would take a child to grow up? And what if they came out a singer, surely they wouldn't be strong enough to handle that?

[AnnMarie]

I think taking a child to Ballybran is totally unethical, and not in a child's best interests. It would also be extreamly selfish.

[Brenda]

Imagine a child going through Milekey Transition!!!!!!! Suddenly they can smell better, hear better, etc., before they go to the infirmary. In the book Crystal Singer, when Killashandra was experiencing enhanced senses, how did the infirmary staff KNOW when to go to killa's room???????? :confused:
I think they had sensors in the room which registered a change in her body.

[Purpura]

I play on a game called CrystalMush, which basically has the theme of being the Heptite Guild with the Singers etc... The recruits to the guild are not allowed to be children though we currently have a character that's a small adult at 3 ft tall- the characters vary in size from her size to tall- One character is about 6 feet 9 -I looked at the description of said character. Supposedly in some record mentioned in the game was that some child had been in a crash on Ballybran, and the symbiont had killed them because it had not been through growing and the changes were too extreme for said nameless child...

When the players create the characters they start out on Shankill in a space station on that moon. There are other worlds the players go to roleplay on as well as Ballybran. Once the Applicants to the Guild have been through a Full Disclosure -as in the books, the characters go down to Ballybran and then after a while the characters are Adapted to something needed by the Guild
During the interviewing process for the recruits they put in a hefty though abbreviated chunk of their past history, and if there is any dark/scary parts to it and they permit it, the characters get to relive it or something else during their fevers that are @emitted to them by the Meditechs on the game

[Jax]

Hmmm if a crystal singer wanted it bad enough, if they wanted to adopt, they could perhaps get the child to live at Shankill, to make the decision once old enough to try Ballybran or not. It'd be a little unfair on the child with the singers in such an I-don't-care-about-anything-except-myself attitude until they've got rid of their resonance, but perhaps, once they've firgured out how to stop the singers getting like that, hinted at right at the end of the 3rd book, with the mach storms it's be do-able... hmmm

[granath]

Umm. I think having minor children would definitely disqualify someone from applying to the guild. The only reason any would ever get there is a crash landing, I suspect. By and large, the people on Ballybran didn't care about children, and I suspect that the symbiont would get rid of any remaining broodiness. I suspect the same would happen to anyone who adapted well enough to survive, whether or not they became singers. Frankly a singer isn't a suitable person to raise kids, too forgetful and too egotistical.

[Shadow*]

In the case of an incurable disease I suppose that it could be justified. My only concern would be that unless they had a Milekey Transition they might not actually survive, depending on the seriousness of the disease. I suppose that being children they might not resist the 'change' the same way as adults, but having been removed from a possible loving family atmosphere to a new planet and being surrounded by strangers I wouldn't have thought that they would be relaxed enough not to put up a subconscious rejection of the symbionts takeover of their body. As far as being brought up on Ballybran, children are adaptable. If they were brought to the planet at an early age they wouldn't necessarily find it strange as it would be what they were used to and 'normal'.

As granath said I don't think that Crystal Singers would be suitable parents, due the effects of the crystal affecting their memory and general demeanor. Provided that 'parents' were available throughout all the other categories I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem and depending on the augmentation the child ended up with they could be placed with a similary augmented adult, who would be able to help them as they grew up. The only difficult child to place would possibly be one suited to being a Crystal Singer.

My only query would be - after symbiosis took place would the child still continue to mature normally, or would they remain childlike forever? It was noted in the book that those from Ballybran lived longer with little if any characteristics of their actual physical age. If the child failed to mature then I would see little point or future in removing even a terminally sick child to Ballybran, the implications of having a lot of immature bodies, mature minds and resentful demeanors doesn't bear thinking about, (most of us grow out of our teen years :evil: ;) ) *Thinks of the childlike character from 'Interview with the Vampire'*

Hope that makes sense?

[selket]

everyone on ballybran has to have perfect pitch. if the kid does, i don't see why he/she can't come :D

[granath]

everyone on ballybran has to have perfect pitch. if the kid does, i don't see why he/she can't come :D

Not after Lars became Guildmaster and was allowed to recruit people. They were becoming so good at choosing people to become crystal singers, that they were risking running out of people to do the support functions. If Antona had adapted well enough, she would've been forced to become a singer, even though she was medically trained. So much better to recruit someone who doesn't have perfect pitch although is otherwise adaptable.

The whole perfect pitch thing is nonsense anyway. Good relative pitch should be enough to sing crystal, if it's enough to play the violin.

[Keita]

Difficult one. Leaving "no other choice" as in life threatening disease asside, I think the real question is would a singer be a good parent? Killa forgot Lanzecki was dead just days after it happened. Would they remember they HAD a child to look after? Moksoon couldn't remember she was supposed to be with him from one moment to the next...Sure, those issues could have been resolved thanks to Big Hungry Junk, and in that case...

...it would be unethical to deny them the choice of having children of their own someday. Just adopting for the sake of adopting would be selfish and besides, if they couldn't make peace with the fact that they couldn't have children of their own, they should not have applied to the guild in the first place. "Told you were" as Tukolom would say.

[Dux]

I've actually thought about this question. To me, adoption or bringing a child to ballybran would just be totally irresposible. The child would have no school to attend, no playmates and a caregiver that could be out in the ranges for months at a time, that might eventually forget about the child's existance altogether. As only a Singer could travel offplanet to adopt, it just doesn't make sense to me to adopt a child who you would immediately hand over to another to raise for those weeks or months you were out singing crystal. BTW, who would be caring for the child while you were unavailable? there are no teachers, day care workers, etc. on Ballybran. Would someone who has not made a transition to Singer now have the resposibility for raising your child? Who pays for it? Would you have to give an extra tithe? other singers certainly would be against the profits of their cutting going to someone who is not providing for them personally.Also, there is no way of knowing what type of transition the child would have with the symbiont. Milekey? Unlikely, the child would then have to deal with the trama of whatever side effects came with the transition, probably at an age when they would understand none of it. In addition, depending on the type of transition they have their profession would be chosen for them.

*gets off :box: *

:D

[Kenzie's Mom]

One question.... they say that Singers stop ageing (SP?) once they adapt.. will a child stop growing.. ageing.. will they ever grow to adulthood...? Or will they stay a child forever.. or as long as the simbiant (SP?) doesn't weaken within them?

[Dux]

One question.... they say that Singers stop ageing (SP?) once they adapt.. will a child stop growing.. ageing.. will they ever grow to adulthood...? Or will they stay a child forever.. or as long as the simbiant (SP?) doesn't weaken within them?
Another good point.

Do they stop aging, or is the aging process just slowed down? Are growth and aging the same thing?

[Jax]

Well, I just wondered because in one book, I'm not sure if it's book 2 or 3 Killa experiences a pang where she wishes she could have children with Lars. That was what spurred my thought, a lot of you mention that the crystal singers especially would be too volatile to have or even want a child, if they remember they have one, but if you remember, Lars was never the 'typical' singer, there must have been more like him, and as I already mention if they can force the singers to get out of the ranges before the storms hit and/or meet with the jewel junk, their memory problems could be solved - just look at Killa's change in mood after that happened to her!

Hhmmm, another thought, perhaps I should start a new thread for it, why can't the other Ballybranians leave the planet? In fact, I will, post your answers to my new thread!

[Jax]

Another good point.

Do they stop aging, or is the aging process just slowed down? Are growth and aging the same thing?
I'm not sure Dux, though Killa has no idea how old people like Lanzecki are when she first arrives, and some of them had already been there for hundreds of years already, like Trag.
I do believe growth and ageing are linked, because once you stop growing, you start shrinking, or something, it's like a peak.... :confused: LOL I don't know

[Bane]

Hmmm... thought about it and :lurk:ed some more. Than came back. I think that I would spend time on one world, if I got the money to leave and go far away for long. While on that world, I would look into adopting, but before I did, I would explain to the child that he/she would not age like the rest of the universe. That he/she would be a child for centuries. Te only problem I would have with it would be the idea of a child Singer. Because of the chance that the child would be a Singer, I would adopt a teenager. That way, they would not be so small and have to go into the ranges. It would also be bad for a smaller child singer to make enough to get off world (supposing they are centuries old) and be treated as a child when they arrived where they were going. They would have to be "touring" as a Singer, and be known to everyone as a Singer to get the respect they would require. I wouldn't like the idea of a hundred year old mind in the body of a ten year old. I would adopt no less than a 16 year old. Someone who is mature enough to undertsand the repurcussions of what their adoption would entail

[Weyrwoman Kalina]

Well, I just wondered because in one book, I'm not sure if it's book 2 or 3 Killa experiences a pang where she wishes she could have children with Lars. That was what spurred my thought, a lot of you mention that the crystal singers especially would be too volatile to have or even want a child, if they remember they have one, but if you remember, Lars was never the 'typical' singer, there must have been more like him, and as I already mention if they can force the singers to get out of the ranges before the storms hit and/or meet with the jewel junk, their memory problems could be solved - just look at Killa's change in mood after that happened to her!

Hhmmm, another thought, perhaps I should start a new thread for it, why can't the other Ballybranians leave the planet? In fact, I will, post your answers to my new thread!

It's book 2... Killashandra... while she's still on Optheria. She thinks that if she were to ever have a child (if she still could) it would be with Lars. But then she, of course, realizes how silly a thought that is since she's infertile!!!

As for the whole child issue, I think it would be a VERY BAD IDEA for many reasons:

1- Like it has been pointed out, the symbiont stops aging. The child would stay in a child like body forever. Sure, their mind would mature, but they'd keep the same muscle build, size, everything. How could they possibly be a contributing member to the guild? I guess they could... uhm... be VERY behind the scenes people?

2- During Full Disclosure, aspiring Guild members are told that they will be rendered infertile by the symbiont. So if they are without children when they arrive, and they accept that part of the deal, than I don't think they really have any right to adopt. They KNEW what they were getting in to and since they didn't back out they gave up their rights to have children.

3- Also already brought up is the subject of memory: Yes, the Big Hungry Junk can help with that... as can keeping a detailed personal log for yourself. But they would still FORGET things... and what if they didn't want to keep a log... or didn't care to take part in the Junk's 'powers'? Even if they did, they would still be out in the ranges for long periods of time, leaving the child at the complex without their parent(s). How fair would that be to them?

So yeah, after having said all that, no, it wouldn't be right at all to bring children to that planet. Not even, to a point, if the symbiont could save their life. After all, they'd be stuck there forever and in a child's body.