Fire-Lizard memory

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

I'm not sure if this is verified an any of the books either way, I forget, but there were a few theories on how the firelizards could 'remember' when people first landed on Pern, and the volcano erupting. Either they passed on a genetic memory through the generations, or those ones were actually there to witness it. There might be some other speculations that I can't remember.

[Mausey]

I recall the original colonists wondering how long firelizards lived and they had the chance to study the critters fairly closely. They seemed to think they lived a very, very long time so I guess it might be possible for them to live a couple thousand turns. Wasn't there a mention somewhere that the only reason the dragons aged was because the rider did?

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Yes, I recall that as well, but I just wanted some concrete evidence. There was alot of speculation and talking about it, but not sure if there was anything proving it.

[Lady Cin]

I believe the info you are looking for can be found on page 399 of Dragonsdawn (hardback edition). The passage starts with...
"Your dragons are so young," Pol went on,.............

Hope this helps...

:)

[C_ris]

I think that firelizards tended to share memories, especially when in the wild.

[B`dgyr]

I think that they actually had hereditary memories. similar to how elephants who have never been to a certain water hole can go right to it in times of need....see my post on the "Robinton" thread...

[Ravien Coromana]

i agree with the fact that they live for thousands of years.

[Calaedros]

They may or may not live for a long time, but I think that the memory is genetic. I can't remember exact quotes, but several bonded firelizards were scared by the sight of the red star, and they were impressed at birth.

Cal

[Shalyn]

Maybe instead of thousands of years old, some of the firelizards just pop back and forth between times. Since between seems to be some type of dimensional wormhole, and firelizards, with their smaller brains probably not even knowing what 'time' is, can traverse both time and space with the ease that a man-made dragon can traverse space.

Therefore, no one will ever know just how old a firelizard is....

[DuchessPariah]

Mind-numbing concepts, eh?

I think the memories are a nice jumble of "all of the above."

I believe that the firelizards are long-lived creatures that enjoy sharing (with one another, with their bonded, with any dragon that does not view them as an annoying, possible-snack) anything and everything... including memories.

[Aurelia]

In the 2nd edition of "The Dragonlover's Guide to Pern", JLN says that, since firelizards are so long lived, it's believed that the lizards who "told" Jaxom about the volcano were either first or second-generation descendants of the ones who actually witnessed it.

[Kath]

Wild firelizards impress to their fair.

We know that the impression link is very strong for dragons and firelizards, and that what dragons lose in memory they gain in empathy. Firelizard memories will be considerably better than those of their larger cousins.

So, I epxect that the entirety of a closely-knit fair will share each others memories. And while a firelizard might not live beyond a century or so, the fair possibly will, thereby keeping alive the racial memories of millenia before.

[Aurelia]

don't flits also share memories in different fairs, too? (jaxom got the volcano memories from different fairs, didn't he?)

[Brenda]

Wild firelizards impress to their fair.

We know that the impression link is very strong for dragons and firelizards, and that what dragons lose in memory they gain in empathy. Firelizard memories will be considerably better than those of their larger cousins.

So, I epxect that the entirety of a closely-knit fair will share each others memories. And while a firelizard might not live beyond a century or so, the fair possibly will, thereby keeping alive the racial memories of millenia before.That's fantastic!

[Mausey]

The odd thing is, all the firelizards that the modern riders had were all from the south with the exception of Menolly's fair, YET, Jaxom only got scenes of the shuttles landing from wild fire lizards. same with the volcanos exploding. You'd think if it was a shared memory, ALL southern firelizards would have it and not just the wild ones.

[Aurelia]

maybe the firelizards who saw the volcano erupt were only southern (volcano erupted in south), so they transported it 2 jaxom thru their own descendants

[Monkeysrule]

It's like what Kath said about the fairs. Impressed firelizards are not bonded with a wild fair, so therefore they never receive the ancient memories. It's almost like a legend, passed on through generations, but not hereditary. In a wild fair, the firelizards "chat" with images, memories, and emotions. The young ones receive the memories through telepathy from their fair.

Therefore, the Impressed ones, whether they're from Southern or not, don't "chat" with other fairs the way wild ones do. As a result, they don't have such memories, only emotions such as the fear inspired by the Red Star.

[Aurelia]

thanx, monkeysrule. Just curious-about how many firelizards are currently Impressed on Pern by the time of SoP (an estimate)?

[Mausey]

So if firelizards who impress don't get all the memories, how come they're all scared out of their wits by the red star?

[Aurelia]

The Impressed ones remembered Meron's bronze's flight, and Canth's disaster, and didn't want to go. They realized what disaster it'd bring.

[Mayhem]

With the memories Meron's firelizards have, could they have picked it up from wild firelizards?
As far as I know they tended to go off on their own now and then. Couldn't they have met up with wild ones and shared memories then?

Or am I just making a point that has already been made? :erm:

[Aurelia]

I don't think that point has been made yet, Red XIII. I also think that the majority of the lizard-fear of the Red Star comes from Canth, and thence Berd and Grall.

[Aurelia]

Here's a passage from TWD about lizard memory, on pp.182-184:

Ruth-"A long time ago there was a dragon, a bronze one, and a man who walked up and down the beach [D'ram and Tiroth]. They did not bother him. He didn't stay long., Ruth added...
The new fire-lizards became so excited...[he said], They remember men...No dragons. But many many men, Ruth was saying and added taht the fire-lizards were too excited now to remember anything about one man and a dragon. He didn't understand what they were remembering; each one seemed to have different memories....R[Ruth said], They haven't seen you [Jaxom]. They've only looked at me. But you aren't their men."

[Aurelia]

These lizards were unImpressed wild Southern lizards; I'm guessing they're remembering the Ancients at Landing?

[Monkeysrule]

Yes. The memories of Landing had been passed down mentally from fire-lizard to fire-lizard. The fire-lizards are repeating the memories of ancestors.

[Aurelia]

How many generations of lizards since Landing?

[Monkeysrule]

Who knows? :shrug:

[Aurelia]

In DLG, they say only one or two, but are lizards really that long-lived?

[Monkeysrule]

I doubt it...I mean, it's the DLG, right?

[Kath]

I dunno.
"Centuries" seems plausible, assuming that's only referring to the flits that die of old age. If they can stay in prime health throughout the length of a human lifespan (and the original colonists expected to reach well over a hundred), 1-200 years doesn't seem too unlikely. But I'd guess that injury accounts for the majority of deaths at a much younger age than that.

[Monkeysrule]

And wherries.

[Aurelia]

How unreliable is the DLG?

[Monkeysrule]

It has lots of errors in it.

http://pern.srellim.org/dlg_errata.htm

[Aurelia]

The funny part is that JLN wrote it WITH Anne-I don't think Anne must've done that much fact-checking, then. JLN must've gone out on a limb with details, then.

[Monkeysrule]

The funny part is that JLN wrote it WITH Anne-I don't think Anne must've done that much fact-checking, then. JLN must've gone out on a limb with details, then.
Part of the problem is the editors and part is that, when DLG1 was written, several of the books hadn't been written yet. When the DLG2 was writen, they simply added new stuff and didn't bother to fix the mistakes at the beginning that had been corrected by the later books, especiallt CoP.