Mirrim?

[Goldendragon]

I was reading through the dop again and something has been puzzling me lately. Well how did Mirim manage to be the Weyrleaders(I can remember how to spell his name) weyrmate and is there still a Weyrwoman that is never metioned. She just all of a sudden pops up as a near Weyrwoman figure and she's only a green rider. I know this has been discussed before, but I never really understood how that all came about. Perhaps I missed something. Would anyone like to elaborate?

[ChrisG]

Mirrim and T'gellan had been courting each other long before Eastern Weyr even existed. There's quite a bit of flirting near the end of DragonSong. Talina is the Eastern Weyrwoman, and makes a few appearances in SoP. There's nothing that says that the Weyrleader can't have other relationships outside of mating flights. I actually see the T'gellan, Talina, Mirrim relationship as being more in accordance with the supposed rules of Weyrlife, unlike the monogamous relationships we see everywhere else.

[Hans]

*edited thread title*

I fully agree with Chris. Although Mirrim will take on a lot of responsibilities for organisational and logistic things, Golden, she is "just" the weyrmate of the Weyrleader. The very specific Weyrwoman duties (recording, leading queen's wing and such) are Talina's domain.

[C_ris]

I agree that Mirrims relationship with T'gellan seems to be more like the usual one. Mirrim is very bossy, ansd takes on jobs, but has no responsibility to them as she has no specific post or job. She is only there becuase of T'gellan.

[BeckyMildan]

I agree that Mirrim and T'gellan are probably a more typical weyr couple than any of the others that we have seen. However I have to disagree that Mirrim is only "there" because of T'gellan. She must have strong backing from Talina, who after all is WW. Tai, seems to think that Talina is lazy but it may be that she has other things to do and therefore appreciate having Mirrim fill in for her in areas that she either doesn't want to handle or hasn't time to handle. Anne has never given us more than a very peripheral glance at the leadership of Monaco Bay Weyr and we see very little of Talina. However since the weyr is well run, whatever the relationship is between Mirrim, T'gellan and Talina it works and works well. Talina is WW but since we only see people going to, or blaming Mirrim for things that would not normally be her responsibility it is logical to accept that she does have authority and responsibility beyond the normal green rider. T'gellan may be part of the reason but only the Weyr Woman, Talina, could give her that authority.

[B`dgyr]

What Becky said, y'all. Sounds good to me, and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

[Mausey]

Mirrim was most likely headed for a head woman role before she impressed so it's only logical that she'd use the training she had to help run any weyr she was in. I think I read somewhere that T'gellan had an eye on Mirrim for several years and was just waiting for her to grow up. Being able to have her in multiple roles, rider, weyrmate and weyr organizer was a bonus. She does seem to take on a bit more than a traditional green rider, but, considering that she's already going against ALL tradition by being chosen... maybe what she's doing is what the original female green riders did anyway.

[Lady Arwyn]

I used to think that maybe Mirrim was T'gellan's Wingsecond (one of them anyway), officially or unofficially, because she seems to act much like F'nor does in comparason to F'lar.

Then in SoP when Mirrim tries to tell Tai off for supposedly taking time from her rescue mission to retrieve her feline skins, Tai finally tells Mirrim off, and at some point she (or Zaranth) either thinks or says something to the effect that Mirrim has no authority of her own and needs to keep her nose out of other people's business.

So yeah, she's bossy and has the Weyrleader's ear, but in the end, Mirrim is just a greenrider.

[Sandi]

Authority is a thing claimed by some and given by others. People manufacture all sorts of social system assigning authority (sometimes better described as blame ) to suit the situation they are in. Mirim wanted authority and some people gave it to her. Talina may have enjoyed the lessened responsibility or she may have tolerated it in the interest of peace. That's something I've always wondered about myself but don't remember it ever being made clear in any of the books. It always seemed to me that Mirim went out of her way to assert herself even at a very young age and I never believed for a moment that her impressing a dragon was an "accident" except that I think she planned on getting a gold at the first opportunity but the little green responded to her first.

[fuzzypaws]

Sometimes leadership finds us when we least expect it. I suspect that is what happened to Mirrim. As any female out there knows you have to pick up the peices of the things men start or the world will fall apart.

[Lady Arwyn]

What are a Weyrwoman's duties? To keep records, to check-in Tithes and see to the dicipline within the Lower Caverns. She overses the Headwoman (the Weyrwoman's 2nd), making sure the children are fostered correctly, the Weyr eats a healthy diet, the Weyr has a supply of medical supplies and manage the Crafters and workers of the Lower Caverns. She also has to make public appearances at Hold and Hall events (with or without the Weyrleader) and to work with the Holds in determining tithes, and to communicate with the Hold and Hall groundcrews after Threadfall.

Do we see Mirrim doing ANY of these things? No.

We see Mirrim working with T'gellan in the duties of the Weyrleader, seeing to the training and dicipline of the Wings and Weyrlings, attend meetings with him, and other stuff that we typically see F'nor doing for F'lar as Wingsecond. As for attending meetings, remember, until Lessa, Weyrwomen were *not invited* to Weyrleader meetings. Lessa kinda barged in, and a few other Weyrwomen followed her example, but not all. There as a comment in SoP that even 30 turns after they accepted the general idea of Weyrwomen at such meetings, three or four other Weyrwomen still didn't attend.

The example of a Weyrwoman that we all see is Lessa, who keeps her fingers in everyone's pies, she involves herself in the Weyrleader's, the Hold and the Hall business because she is a control freak. It is NOT a proper example of what a Weyrwoman is supposed to do.

Our other example is Moreta, who actually does stick with her duties and doesn't try to do the Weyrleader's duties as well. We don't see her doing alot of the things that Lessa does.

The one time we ever see Mirrim doing something that is at all Weyrwomanish was during the evacuation of Monaco Weyr, when it turns out she helps out in the kitchen. That isn't a Weyrwoman duty, that is actually a duty of the Headwoman and her assistants. It looks to me like, as a greenrider, Mirrim simply keeps working with the Headwoman as an underling when she doesn't have rider duties.

If Tai sees Talina as "lazy" (in SoP it says that she was upset that Talina did only what was her specific duties, nothing else), she is using Lessa and other "go-getters" who take on their own duties and no extras as an example. She sees doing your own job and not offering to help others when you are done as laziness. I don't, I see it as maybe a little selfish, and in the case of leaving the dishes undone, a little rude. But not lazy. It's quite a big enough job just to do the basic job of a Weyrwoman, and caring for my own dragon.

As to why Talina doesn't mind T'gellan's weyrmating of Mirrim, look at Moreta and Sh'gall. She certaintly wouldn't have minded if he found someone else. Maybe Talina is in love with some Healer or Harper, maybe even a Holder somewhere (ala Moreta). Maybe a brownrider. Who knows? She would be quite happy for T'gellan to go off with Mirrim and leave her alone (except during mating flights, of course).

[Aurelia]

Just curious-we only found out the name of Talina's queen, Arwith, in SoP, right?

[Lady Arwyn]

Correct, but she had to be there before that because T'lion had Impressed at Monaco/Eastern Weyr turns earlier.

[Aurelia]

true, very true. Also, did we ever find out the name of the queen dragon that Hatched from the Egg that Jaxom rescued in TWD?

[Lady Arwyn]

true, very true. Also, did we ever find out the name of the queen dragon that Hatched from the Egg that Jaxom rescued in TWD?
I can't find a name for that dragon or rider.

But I did note while searching for the information that Talina (who is Ruathan, btw) and Jaxom Impressed at the same Hatching where Brekke failed to Impress. It was Arwith that Berd prevented Brekke from Impressing. And Talina stepped in to protect Arwith from Berd's "attack."