A little bit Racist

[Milo]

In Avenue Q they sing "Everyones a little bit racist, todaayyyy.... Everyones a little bit racist, okaaaaaaaaay."
Is that true? Can anybody ever be truely objective, or will there always be a subconcious division between black and white, hispanic and caucasian, asian and african etc.?

I hope no one is offended by this thread/poll.

[Shazza]

I am not offended by this poll. I also do not consider myself racist. Sure I have taken issues with certain groups in the past but not a whole race, rather a group within a race. For the most part I prefer to take each person at face value regardless of race, colour or religion.

[Milo]

I agree with you that everybody should be taken at face value. But I voted for subconciously because even though I dont think my race is superior, I sometimes am dismayed to find myself making generalizations about other ethnic groups. :blush:

[dae]

i'm not racist if theres something that i don't like about a person i might be against them but nobody else each person is diffrent

[granath]

I agree with you that everybody should be taken at face value. But I voted for subconciously because even though I dont think my race is superior, I sometimes am dismayed to find myself making generalizations about other ethnic groups. :blush:

Ditto. I try very hard not to judge people by the color of their skin etc, but there are some cultural traditions that I find so abhorrent that I can barely see the people who practise them as human, never mind humane. I wouldn't call myself a racist, but a cultural xenophobe? Perhaps.

[Xhack]

And ditto again. My views are coloured by having been at the receiving end - one of only five white kids in a school of 600. But maybe being picked on was more down to being the Principal's son than anything else! :D

In any event, my first real "girlfriend" (if you can be said to have one at age 11 ;) ) was Bengali. Being fickle, I quickly replaced her with a Nepalese beauty.

So I think I can fairly claim to be colour-blind. Mind you, when I lived in London's Brixton, I'd tend to cross to the other side late at night if approached by a gang of West Indian youths. But then, I'd do the same in the rougher areas of white Glasgow . . . so I guess that's commonsense rather than racism.

[Sharon]

Racist, No, I don't think so.

However I think Granath hit the nail on the head with the Cultural Xenophone. There's some of that in me. Things practiced by cultures that I find abhorrent, and inhumane. However the same can be said about different religons too.

Skin color, or race makes little difference. It's the beliefs and actions of a group of people that defines how I feel about them.

I'm an equally opportunity sort... Extremists of every persuasion, White Christian Fundamentalits, Muslims, whatever, all make my skin crawl.

I guess in a way it comes down to ideologies.

[Calaedros]

I think it's very difficult to be racist when one's standing having an interesting, intelligent conversation with someone who's racially different from oneself. I personally think it's due to ignorance - I see a lot of parallels (in fact, it's exactly the same thing..) with sectarianism in Ireland.

Cal

[Xhack]

Ah, but there are degrees of ignorance:

"Don't know, but willing to learn"

and

"Comfortable with my prejudice - don't confuse me with the facts" ;)

edit: Of course, there are also those who've thought it through and STILL hold extremist views. Nothing you can do, there . . . :sad:

[Mayhem]

I had to vote for the subconcious. I do not have trouble with people of different races, I worked for a while with an Iranian group in a pizza shop. I do, however have some problems with some Iraqui's where I live. I have 2 children in a 2 bedroom flat, was sqautting for 6 months in a flat with no light or heat as I was told that there were no houses available. When I finally recieved my tiny two bedroom flat, I noticed a whole row of houses standing empty. When I asked the council I was told they were taken. Within 2 days of that visit the houses (three and four bedroomed houses) were indeed filled, by Iraqui's. Only one of the 8 houses has a full family living in it the rest are filled by either single men or women or in the case of two of them a woman with one child. To make matters worse, myself and my children are subjected to racial abuse every time we leave the house. The council won't kick them out, even with the CCTV footage of one of my kids being hit repeatedly with a stick by one of the families's kids (he is 8 my daughter is 4) and , surprise surprise, can't move me due to lack of housing!
OK rant over.

[Lady Cin]

Back when I was still in high school, yes I was a racist...because my dad was and to me what dad believed in, I did too.

Once I went to college tho, I was exposed to a whole new reality. My college had a foreign exchange program and I met folk from all over the world. I learned quick that someone of a different color/culture/religion was just another person and should not be hated just because they were different.

Today, I take people at face value; I no longer hate or despise a particular group just because they are not MY group. I take folk on a case by case basis now; there are individuals that I can't stand but what group they are from is not the determining factor.

Personally, I am a white, american, female and the only 'group' of folk I am prejudiced against are 'male, chauvanist pigs'.

:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

[C_ris]

I think that I am proably subconsciously 'racist', but only against an entire nationality etc. if i talk to a person, then i take them on a individual front rather than as a member of a ethnic/nationsl grouping. There are more 'stereotypes' which if i do not know better tend to see.

But I do not consider myself in any way 'racist'. But it is impossible to have no prejudices for one reason or another.

[Mausey]

NO! well... maybe subconciouslyThat got my vote. I don't think I'm racist, but I have to admit I'm from a small town that is white. I think there are maybe 4 or 5 families that aren't so I haven't had much of a chance to interact or get to know many people of other races. I always was envious of my cousin in the city who went to school with kids from dozens of countries.

[AnnMarie]

I went with the subconcious answer. I try not to judge based on a person's color, religion, etc... but there are some times I know I have knee-jerk reactions to some groups.

[Lady Arwyn]

I admit to being subconciously racist. But is it really racism, or am I guilty of doing it to ALL people.

When I meet someone, black, white, yellow, red, etc, I make snap emotional judgements on more than just their skin, I tend to also judge their clothing, hair, general style, weight (that's a good one, coming from me :roll: ), physical appearance and personal hygene (do they have all their teeth? ). And I also tend to judge them in other ways, intellectually, academically and, well, class. My immediate reaction is to judge both "high class" and "low class" people as somewhere below me.

Probably my worst infraction is being a bit of an "intellectual snob". But seeing how severe of an intellectual snob my brother is makes me backpedal as fast as I can.

Then my brain steps in and slaps my emotional reaction down and I move on, shutting that initial reaction down.

Most of my best friends have fallen into one or more of every category I listed, so appearrantly I *can* work past those stupid judgemental things that go through my mind when I meet or even just pass someone on the street.

[Shadow*]

I had to go with the NO! well... maybe subconciously vote, although this tends to be coupled with, as Lady Cin said, the Male Chauvenistic Pig element. Erm..... subconciously racially sexist would probably be a better way for me to put it. :blush:

[Madrigal]

Subconsciously, for me. The first thing I'll notice when I see someone different from me is that they're different.

I also think more so towards some groups rather than others. I grew up with various Asian playmates (Japanese, Chinese, Cambodian, Thai, Malaysian, Indian, you get it) and I guess that left more of a legacy than being able to say almost any foreign name you put in front of me.

But then I attend a city school... where just about everything's well-represented, and the group I hang out with is black, Latino, biracial, and a few others I'm not sure of... and I think that helps.

It's a matter of what you're used to. I'm willing to bet that if you dropped a traditional redneck into Ghana and had him live there five years, he'd find looking at whites strange when you brought him back to the Ozarks.

[JayEgo]

I like to think, or not even think about, myself as being totally non-racist. I regularly find that when I'm asked to describe someone, their skin colour eludes me. It's been so unimportant ion my life that it doesn't always figure anymore. My mother is white, her sister is black and this is considered quick normal for my family. Something I was brought up with.

I did however have a slight culture shock moving from York to Leicester when I did and discovering a different volume of alternative cultures. If anything, I prefer the mix of influences on everyday life though.

If there was any racism in me, it would have been :sorry: towards americans :eek: but to be totally honest, my opinions of the US were formed and skewed by the media and having enjoyed so many folks company around the KTBB I have realised the severe error in belief.

Fogive me!

Ja¥son xx

[Calaedros]

If there was any racism in me, it would have been :sorry: towards americans :eek: but to be totally honest, my opinions of the US were formed and skewed by the media


Likewise :)

Cal

[C_ris]

I like to think, or not even think about, myself as being totally non-racist. I regularly find that when I'm asked to describe someone, their skin colour eludes me. It's been so unimportant ion my life that it doesn't always figure anymore. My mother is white, her sister is black and this is considered quick normal for my family. Something I was brought up with.

I did however have a slight culture shock moving from York to Leicester when I did and discovering a different volume of alternative cultures. If anything, I prefer the mix of influences on everyday life though.

If there was any racism in me, it would have been :sorry: towards americans :eek: but to be totally honest, my opinions of the US were formed and skewed by the media and having enjoyed so many folks company around the KTBB I have realised the severe error in belief.

Fogive me!

Ja¥son xx
Snap. :eek: :sorry:

[JayEgo]

Snap. :eek: :sorry:What... You can't spell forgive properly either :blush:

Ja¥son xx

[bisb]

Racist, No, I don't think so.

However I think Granath hit the nail on the head with the Cultural Xenophone. There's some of that in me. Things practiced by cultures that I find abhorrent, and inhumane. However the same can be said about different religons too.

Skin color, or race makes little difference. It's the beliefs and actions of a group of people that defines how I feel about them.

I'm an equally opportunity sort... Extremists of every persuasion, White Christian Fundamentalits, Muslims, whatever, all make my skin crawl.

I guess in a way it comes down to ideologies.

You put it how I would have if I was good with words.

[C_ris]

What... You can't spell forgive properly either :blush:

Ja¥son xx
yes i can... :p

[Faren]

Well, I grew up in the "South" in the land of Scarlett O'Hara...so I voted for the subconscious one. I try very hard not to be prejudiced against someone because of their race, and when it's one on one, I do very well...but there are times when I fail. :sad:

[Hans]

I would hate myself if I was and I don't think I could live with hating myself. So I'd rather not be a racist than having to commit suicide...


In case you are wondering, that's a definite

NO

[jjmouse]

If I don't like someone, I don't like him for things he can change. Not for the things he can not change.

This means, if you are any sort of jerk, I am not going to like you much. Because you can change from being a jerk to being a decent person. Educate yourself, and open your mind to another's point of view, and you might be someone I like. Likewise, keep yourself clean and oder free and you might be someone I like.

To not like someone for something that he can not change is foolish. No one can change the color of his skin, or his racial makeup. To not like someone for something that he can not change is just foolish.

[Madrigal]

If there was any racism in me, it would have been :sorry: towards americans :eek: but to be totally honest, my opinions of the US were formed and skewed by the media and having enjoyed so many folks company around the KTBB I have realised the severe error in belief.

Fogive me!

Ja¥son xx

Only if you're very, very nice... :P
We're just about as bad at times with Europeans of any sort. And believe it or not, most of us are also kinda used to hearing everyone hates us.

[Anareth]

Racist? Not so much. Judgemental? Oh, sure. And I'll admit I'm probably faster to judge someone who's black or Latino and obviously lower-class than someone who's white, Asian, Amerind or east Indian. But then I grew up in the Detroit suburbs, so my experiences of those two minorities (ironically until I went to college in the South) were pretty uniformly negative, while that of other minorities, especially Japanese, were positive. At university, I actual met some minorities who were a lot more like me than not (again, this is at a school in the South known for being wealthy and very conservative, which is a fair cop. That meant actually a lot less tendency towards racism--there was never any question, whatever your skin color, if you'd gotten in, you belonged there, because we didn't do quotas. I think at a big state school like U-M, it makes things worse, knowing that a black or Latino student may be there because they got extra credit for being that color, while white and Asian students had to make higher grades and test scores. No question at my school--if you got in you were a smarty-pants workaholic like all the rest of us maniacs.)

Overall, though, I'm more likely to make snap judgements based on how people dress, act, and speak than on whether they're Caucasoid, Mongoloid, or Negroid. There are plenty of obnoxious, undereducated, ill-spoken, badly-dressed twits of all colors.

[selket]

i think all countries are racist in one way or another. it's the people who can change that

[ladyholdermara]

Well NOBODY's perfect :D When you are surrounded by stereotypes(especially those you perpetuate yourself hehe like me) its hard to remain totally non-biased.

[Ryuu]

Well NOBODY's perfect :D When you are surrounded by stereotypes(especially those you perpetuate yourself hehe like me) its hard to remain totally non-biased.I would class myself perhaps like granath said...somewhat culturally xenophobic perhaps--racist? Absolutely Not.

I know that stereotypes really do exist, I see them quite often. However, the vast majority of people of various skin colors, ethnic origins, religions, and even incomes don't conform to the stereotypes, so I can mostly take people at face value.

On the other hand, if a person insists on marring their face and behavior for shock value (such as Punk Rockers), it only fuels the concern that someone else will have about them--especially when it does come to their behavior--but then, that's where stereotypes get created: by a person's behavior....

[Madrigal]

Where it can get annoying is in terms of the race card--especially in terms of affirmative action. I've got a friend--yes, who remains a friend even though we've gotten into fights over this often--who insists that she's oppressed because she's black.

This girl is not oppressed. She's richer than any five families in my neighborhood combined in terms of the inheritance she'll get. She gets straight A's. She's the most popular in the school. She's never had any trouble with boyfriends, white, black or what have you--and yet she continues to say she's oppressed because she's a member of a historically oppressed people.

This girl's had far more opportunity to get into a good college than I do, though I'm not poorly-off. Her parents regularly associate with senators and congressmen, most of whom, she says, have offered to help her get into her college of choice.

Do I feel much sympathy when she says she's oppressed and deserves affirmative action? Nope. Lose the senators, the years of private tutors plus top-notch schools, then we can talk.

On the other hand, there's another girl at my school who deserves it if anyone does. She's black. She's been shot twice in drive-bys, and was a transfer from Ballou, which has school shootings so regularly they don't appear on the front page of the paper.

Her next door neighbor's there, too. She's white. Deserves affirmative action just as much (though she hasn't been shot, her father was killed). Won't be getting it.

Even Clarence Thomas has said the time for affirmative action is over. I think that if they need some screening factor, the colleges should look at a person's life and compare it to their achievements.

But then that's unfair to kids who've never had a chance to struggle...

There's really no way to win.

[Silverspirit157]

A little bit. I guess.

You know, this is a very difficult thing for me to answer. I have friends from many racial groups, including the one I'm prejudiced against so maybe it's not a matter of skin colour but behaviour...

We have a saying "You can take the guy out of the woods, but you can't take the woods out of the guy." There are many people here who behave that way, from all groups (the Afrikaans speaking people who behave that way I call "Afrikaners with a pioneer wagon (ossewa) mentality").

Yes, I can agree with Granath on this one.

I didn't choose the subconscious one because sometimes I can't help judging people by their skin colour, and although I fight it, it does happen sometimes. :blush:

[Bamy]

of coures everyone is a racist if only because the world is going overboard in the political correctness thing.

[Lone Dragon]

I put no because i think all people can have the same good hearts as the good people on this earth white, black, green, or red. We all bleed red blood and we all have faults. So i think people should be judged on the inside not the outside.

[Bullbound]

Ok, I just saw this post and I've heard the song from Avenue Q although I have yet to see the entire thing. In the song, it talks about how we all develop stereotypes based on race that we use sometimes unkowningly. I have to agree with this. If you are of one race, and have never met a person of race B, you will think certain things about Race B that you pick up from media and people around you. I think we are all subconciously racist to some degree if we are not conciously.

[skysong]

Racism is bad in any form, but trying to be overly poltically correct can lead to forms of subression too.

[Nefermiw]

If I don't like someone, I don't like him for things he can change. Not for the things he can not change.

This means, if you are any sort of jerk, I am not going to like you much. Because you can change from being a jerk to being a decent person. Educate yourself, and open your mind to another's point of view, and you might be someone I like. Likewise, keep yourself clean and oder free and you might be someone I like.

To not like someone for something that he can not change is foolish. No one can change the color of his skin, or his racial makeup. To not like someone for something that he can not change is just foolish.

Couldn't have said it much better myself.
We are all individual beings and I do not believe that our DNA makes us a better or worse person than anybody else.

[Raven]

You know, I live way up in Northern Canada where the Native people are getting all kinds of special attention, in order to make up for the rotten way they were treated for the past several centuries. However, it's racism in reverse.

If you want a job, just say you're Native and you're in. It doesn't matter if you're qualified or not, you've got the job. And forget getting fired or let go. Once you're in, you've got it made. The only thing that gets you out of your position is showing up drunk and trying to beat up your boss. Even then, there are ways to get back into your position.

Since most of my uncles are either married to or were married to or lived with Native women, I can't say that I'm really prejudiced. It's just really unfair. I've seen so many deserving people not get jobs because they were non-Native. My oldest brother (adopted) is Inuit. My father married a Native woman and my half-brother and two step-brothers are Native as well.

That's fine with me. It's just unfair to see things so out of whack up here, you know? It's not really giving them equality, but giving them seniority because of their skin colour. Sigh. :banghead:

[sglandon]

Well, I grew up in the "South" in the land of Scarlett O'Hara...so I voted for the subconscious one. I try very hard not to be prejudiced against someone because of their race, and when it's one on one, I do very well...but there are times when I fail. :sad:

Faren, I am there, too. It is very hard to overcome growing up with the biases that pervade the south. My father's family is from VERY rural central Georgia. Can you say, redneck? :eek:
I think I have figured out what my problem is. It is far more a percieved cultural one than it is racial. It kills me to see intelligent black children being told that they're "Actin' White" if they work hard in school and try to do something with their lives. I hate the messages rap music is sending to all of our children, but for so many black children, these gangstas are their heros. Call me a dumb white woman, but I have grown up with black people all of my life, and I just can't figure out how acting like a criminal became part of the "black culture". Most of the black kids I grew up around had lives very similar to mine. We were expected to work hard and be respectful to adults. We went to church. If we got in trouble, there were plenty of adults around who would let momma know, and our race had nothing to do with it. I just wonder how or why those expectations for all children changed. :sad:

[Master Harper Andrea]

What I think it boils down to is that some peeps are good and some are awful, regardless of what race they are. And if you believe that your race is best...you'd best be very careful!!!!!

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

No, I am not racist at all. When it comes down to it, all humans are equal. Of course there may be people of each ethnic background that I might have a problem with, but it has nothing to do with skin color or where they come from. People can't help that, so why hold it against them?. It's inescapable that theres gonna be jerks from each walk of life. Some people have mistaken me for being rascist because I can't stand most kinds of rap and I really can't stand nelly or whoever it is that has that bandaid on his face. But I just can't qualify most rap, which can at times be monotonous and vulgar and sexist, as being music; and don't see the point in wearing a bandaid for no purpose at all other than 'style'. If it were all white people who sung and wore that, I'd feel the same way about them. I was brought up to be indescriminant of people unless there was a very valid reason. Just becaus epeople look or talk differently doesn't seem to be a valid reason to think you're superior than them, would you hold a grudge against animals because they're different? No, we just accept that they are different and leave it at that, I don't see why some people can't view other human beings that way.

just my :2cent:

[leahiniowa]

I was once having an argument with a friend of mine about the Mexicans in our city. (She doesn't live here, but her son goes to school here.) She was repeating some of the racist things her son and his friends were saying, and I objected to it. Then she said, "You know, all stereotypes are stereotypes because there's some truth to them." I knew there had to be an answer to that statement, but couldn't think of one at the time. Now I have an answer to it, one which is very close to my heart: the dumb blonde. As a blonde, and the mother of 6 blondes, and the wife of a blonde, I find that whole concept extremely offensive. Especially as none of us are even close to being dumb. Too bad I have this great answer and no opportunity to use it. Maybe when I go back to NYC I'll look her up and have another argument just so I can say it.

[Calaedros]

I was once having an argument with a friend of mine about the Mexicans in our city. (She doesn't live here, but her son goes to school here.) She was repeating some of the racist things her son and his friends were saying, and I objected to it. Then she said, "You know, all stereotypes are stereotypes because there's some truth to them." I knew there had to be an answer to that statement, but couldn't think of one at the time. Now I have an answer to it, one which is very close to my heart: the dumb blonde. As a blonde, and the mother of 6 blondes, and the wife of a blonde, I find that whole concept extremely offensive. Especially as none of us are even close to being dumb. Too bad I have this great answer and no opportunity to use it. Maybe when I go back to NYC I'll look her up and have another argument just so I can say it.

If you do, just watch out for "the exception that proves the rule" ;)

Cal

[Milo]

There isn't always a grain of truth in stereotypes. People are bigoted to start with, and when they see an example of a certain person of a certain race doing a certain undesirable action, they say "Oh look, all blacks are lazy". That isn't a grain of truth, its an isolated example.

(Leah, I know many dumb people, only some of whom are blonde ;) )

[S'amm]

You know, I live way up in Northern Canada where the Native people are getting all kinds of special attention, in order to make up for the rotten way they were treated for the past several centuries. However, it's racism in reverse.

If you want a job, just say you're Native and you're in. It doesn't matter if you're qualified or not, you've got the job. And forget getting fired or let go. Once you're in, you've got it made. The only thing that gets you out of your position is showing up drunk and trying to beat up your boss. Even then, there are ways to get back into your position.

Since most of my uncles are either married to or were married to or lived with Native women, I can't say that I'm really prejudiced. It's just really unfair. I've seen so many deserving people not get jobs because they were non-Native. My oldest brother (adopted) is Inuit. My father married a Native woman and my half-brother and two step-brothers are Native as well.

That's fine with me. It's just unfair to see things so out of whack up here, you know? It's not really giving them equality, but giving them seniority because of their skin colour. Sigh. :banghead:


Thank you for being honest Raven. It isn't just "up there" that things are "out of whack". I will admit I answered "a little bit". I am not quite sure if I am racist but I am prejudiced. I resent being a white anglo-saxon in Canada today because we have become the minority. I agree with Raven's assessment of the job market for example. Not just inuit peoples but all our original native north americans. They pay no taxes, acquire land grants to fish and hunt as their forefathers did but also receive subsidities, etc.

I also resent the majority of refugees here today. They also receive monthly income from the government while my kids have had problems getting jobs and financing schooling, etc because they are not classed as an equal opportunity minority.

I also resent the use of french as a second language. Depending where you live in this country, the major second language could very well be polish, italian, japanese, hindi, etc, etc, etc.

I feel very strongly that if you wish to change countries, that you should at least try to fit in somewhat. I don't think my country should change into yours for your convenience. You didn't like your own country for some reason and came here. You came here of your own free will so learn to live with it. I am not referring to religion, or personal culture but some things in each country are sacred. For example, I may get a lot of flack for this one but the day they put a Seik turban on a Royal Canadian Mounted Police Officer I was incensed. I understand they must wear a turban but if the rules state that the Mounties wear a time honoured uniform and you can't fit into that uniform then choose another job. Can you imagine the same changes being made to the Beefeaters (sp) or the Coldstream Guards or an American Marine or those marvellous Greek uniforms with the big white "skirts"?

Sometimes being honest is painful but if we are all really honest I think most of us will admit to being a little less of a person than we think we are.

S'amm

[leahiniowa]

This has turned into a great discussion, esp. b/c of S'amm and Raven pitching in. I have a feeling Canada is quite different than the US about this sort of thing, also b/c I've read Robert J. Sawyer's work and in his Neanderthal Trilogy the affirmative action is very central to the plot line, where a top notch geneticist is denied good jobs only b/c he is a white man.

Part of why I answered "subconscious" is b/c I saw how my father changed due to Alzheimer's. He went from being a liberal man who had friends of all persuasions (sexual as well) in the 1950's and 60's (and this from a WWII generation man who recalled being the only officer who would sit with a black officer on his boat) to someone who would call out racist remarks while watching game shows, to the embarassment and disgust of my siblings and I. (Understanding that he was going into dementia changed our perspective later on.) It's cute that we responded the way we did, b/c most of our peers in Texas at the time would agree with my father, so it shows that we had the proper upbringing before he slipped deeper into the disease.

I remember seeing two bathrooms at the mall(for blacks and whites, that is, so really there were four), and two drinking fountains, at the age of 3 or 4, and my fear that I would forget and go into the wrong one. At that age, you don't even look for the sense behind rules and laws, you just fear to break them. And a few years ago we were in the State Courthouse in Dubuque Iowa, and there were two bathrooms. The one labled "Ladies" was lined in mahogany and marble, and was quite elegant. The one marked "women" (for blacks) was still nice, but very spartan, and instead of marble, there was tile. And stalls, instead of separate rooms for the toilets.

[Selene]

I like to think that I'm not but .................... I should not be if one consider my family.

[Sassie]

I wasn't as a child as I lived all over the world within the communities of whichever country we were in.
Then we returned to Britain and I was horrified to find that colour mattered!
Now I live in a multi-ethnic area and find that some of the cultural practices cause my feeling of disquiet about some races.
The most stupid thing I ever saw here was a group of Black lads fighting a group of Asian lads….As if they didn’t have enough problems with other people, they had to fight each other! :faint:

[geishagirl]

I wasn't at all and like to think I'm still not but after I moved when I was 15 I found that the Native Americans where I live have horrible life styles. I only have a smiggin' of Cherokee in me that I have always been proud of. But now after seeing the Native Americans here :eek: The reservation is in a horrible state. They are either drunks or drugies and when I was a waitress they were the worst customers! Not only did they not leave tips but their children were rude loud and running rampant. Some of them bragged about getting free scholarships to go to any college the wanted and said that they would never go or even getting money from the Government because they are "Indian". It is horrible, they give being Native American a bad name!!!

[cewp]

Racist, No, I don't think so.

However I think Granath hit the nail on the head with the Cultural Xenophone. There's some of that in me. Things practiced by cultures that I find abhorrent, and inhumane. However the same can be said about different religons too.

Skin color, or race makes little difference. It's the beliefs and actions of a group of people that defines how I feel about them.

I'm an equally opportunity sort... Extremists of every persuasion, White Christian Fundamentalits, Muslims, whatever, all make my skin crawl.

I guess in a way it comes down to ideologies.
Ditto.

[The Harper]

I voted no but as I've said before how can anyone be racist? we are all human beings and therefore memebers of the human race. What some people are refering to as race is actually either ethnicity, nationality or religion. Personally I try to treat all people as equal not superior or inferior maybe different but as MR Spock would say IDIC infinite diversity in ifinite combinations. :2cent:

[j_mercuryuk]

Subconcious. I may not mean too, but sometimes I do make generlisations, but it may come down to being naive more then anything. *shrugs* But I do hate myself when I find myself thinking like this. :banghead:
I love differnt races and religions, I think it's one of the great things of this world. I always try to be open minded about people and cultures. But what dose get me is if people come into a country, or anywhere in fact, and demand things to be done their way. Even through I'm a christian, I do hate it when I see/hear other christains trying to push thier views onto other people. But then in the reverse I hate it when people think that all christains think the same thing and all believe extractly the same thing.
I'm half French and I hate hearing people put them in in a stereotype. I had a best friend like that about 8 years ago and it really hurt me. :cry:

[T'ley]

I sometimes am dismayed to find myself making generalizations about other ethnic groups. :blush:

I voted A lill bit. i Hope I don't get ousted for this.

I don't have a problem with individuals I have known people from many different back grounds and many of them are nicer than some English people. I have a bit of a problem with all the Immagrents. This prolly rubbed off my dad. I heard somewhere that in one town there ar almost as many Forigners as english people. i don't think that this is a good thing at all. E.G. in elections, if English/british prople (or what ever race the country is, german, french... etc...) I think that i there are too many Forigners the country will not get what's best for the Natives/ what they want because they were not the majority. Pluss i think that Blair is practically married to Bush "Yes George No George three bags full George, where would you like me to comit the rest of the hard erned tax I have pilfered from my countrymen by extortionatly upping taxes." And he has let in too many assylum seakers. some - fine. We do our bit. but not half the population of whatever country has a crisis because he won't say no to them.

please tell me if you find my views offensive or overly critical. I am open to sugestions and I do like to talk!!!!! :wave:

[The Harper]

I voted A lill bit. i Hope I don't get ousted for this.

I don't have a problem with individuals I have known people from many different back grounds and many of them are nicer than some English people. I have a bit of a problem with all the Immagrents. This prolly rubbed off my dad. I heard somewhere that in one town there ar almost as many Forigners as english people. i don't think that this is a good thing at all. E.G. in elections, if English/british prople (or what ever race the country is, german, french... etc...) I think that i there are too many Forigners the country will not get what's best for the Natives/ what they want because they were not the majority. Pluss i think that Blair is practically married to Bush "Yes George No George three bags full George, where would you like me to comit the rest of the hard erned tax I have pilfered from my countrymen by extortionatly upping taxes." And he has let in too many assylum seakers. some - fine. We do our bit. but not half the population of whatever country has a crisis because he won't say no to them.

please tell me if you find my views offensive or overly critical. I am open to sugestions and I do like to talk!!!!! :wave:

You are confusing race with nationality which everyone seems to do. The erm Racism is just an conveinient PC term when what people really mean is they are colour prejudiced religiously prejudiced and are against various other minorities. But whilst there are different ethnic backgrounds we are all essentially one race everyone equal no matter our skin colour nation of origin or religious belief. Thew other thing that causes differences is politics, what would we do if an alien ship landed and certain very large governments couldnt hide it it the beings(they would be a different race) proved to be of a political persuasion that was fo9und abnorrent yet it obviously worked because they had managed to send a ship to earth.

[Milo]

Harper, I cant really see where your coming from... The very definiton of "race" is people with genetically different skin colors... *shrug* how can there be no race? Obviously we're not different BREEDS... but Race...

[The Harper]

Harper, I cant really see where your coming from... The very definiton of "race" is people with genetically different skin colors... *shrug* how can there be no race? Obviously we're not different BREEDS... but Race...

Again we are members of the human race. the term racism is used to cover one thing only a feeling that white people are superior to black people and this goes back to the days of slavery where the black slves were considered animals. it seems to me that sometimes race becomes an issue because people want to go around shouting I'm form an ethinc minority and theefore better no wrong again We are all human with different nationalities and ethnic backgrounds. I have this attitude because I try very hard not to be prejudiced apart form politically but we won't go there.

[C_ris]

I voted A lill bit. i Hope I don't get ousted for this.

I don't have a problem with individuals I have known people from many different back grounds and many of them are nicer than some English people. I have a bit of a problem with all the Immagrents. This prolly rubbed off my dad. I heard somewhere that in one town there ar almost as many Forigners as english people. i don't think that this is a good thing at all. E.G. in elections, if English/british prople (or what ever race the country is, german, french... etc...) I think that i there are too many Forigners the country will not get what's best for the Natives/ what they want because they were not the majority. Pluss i think that Blair is practically married to Bush "Yes George No George three bags full George, where would you like me to comit the rest of the hard erned tax I have pilfered from my countrymen by extortionatly upping taxes." And he has let in too many assylum seakers. some - fine. We do our bit. but not half the population of whatever country has a crisis because he won't say no to them.

please tell me if you find my views offensive or overly critical. I am open to sugestions and I do like to talk!!!!! :wave:
The problem is economic migrants. These are the people referred to as 'Illegal Immigrants'. 'Asylum Seekers' are people coming to Great Britain to seek asylum from a country where they are being persecuted. Economic migrants are just those who don't want to work to make their own country better, and tend to be those who scrouge off of our benefits system.

One of the problems is that Briatain is taking in far too high a share of Asylum seekers, plus many many more unknown immigrants. Under the rules of aslum, then Britain should NOT receive almost ANY asylum seekers as they are suppossed to claim asylum in the first 'safe' country they enter. And it is difficult to get to Britain without passing through one of them first!!!

[Milo]

Again we are members of the human race. the term racism is used to cover one thing only a feeling that white people are superior to black people and this goes back to the days of slavery where the black slves were considered animals. it seems to me that sometimes race becomes an issue because people want to go around shouting I'm form an ethinc minority and theefore better no wrong again We are all human with different nationalities and ethnic backgrounds. I have this attitude because I try very hard not to be prejudiced apart form politically but we won't go there.
Um.. well... for me, race=ethnicity. :)

[The Harper]

The problem is economic migrants. These are the people referred to as 'Illegal Immigrants'. 'Asylum Seekers' are people coming to Great Britain to seek asylum from a country where they are being persecuted. Economic migrants are just those who don't want to work to make their own country better, and tend to be those who scrouge off of our benefits system.

One of the problems is that Briatain is taking in far too high a share of Asylum seekers, plus many many more unknown immigrants. Under the rules of aslum, then Britain should NOT receive almost ANY asylum seekers as they are suppossed to claim asylum in the first 'safe' country they enter. And it is difficult to get to Britain without passing through one of them first!!!

Illegal immigrants very often actually do all the very unpleasant or physically labour intensve jobs that we Brits are too proud to do. There will always be people who won't work in their country of origin because they think they can get a better deal elsewhere. Just as there will always be people who try to claim Social Security illegally be they immigrants or our own home gorwn scroungers. :2cent:

[The Harper]

Um.. well... for me, race=ethnicity. :)

Well for me thats the very thing that causes the problems but by using the term racism as a negative and race realtions as a positive you are actually sanitizing the situatuion and at the same time creating massive divides. As a race we have been pretty despicable to each other over the millenia and its time as a race we grew up and stopped it. Doing away with bigotry and the idea that one set of humans is better than another would be a good start. :2cent:

[leahiniowa]

Hey, I made a post here and I don't know what happened to it!!! I was distracted so maybe I pushed the wrong button. what I was trying to say was, C'milo, we've all had this discussion with the harper before and this is just his shtick. You have a different perspective when you ARE a member of a minority group.

E.g., my daughter was talking about intermarriage the other day, and she said that, as a chassid, she couldn't identify with a mainstream secular Christian b/c they have no sense of alienation, and if she ever did G-d forbid intermarry, it would be someone like a black person who has a sense of alienation and feeling different from the norm. B/c they could relate to each other that way.

[The Harper]

Why oh Why wont people just be humans first and whatever ethinc/ religious group afterward. Because when all's said and done what the hell does it matter :2cent:

[Milo]

Why oh Why wont people just be humans first and whatever ethinc/ religious group afterward. Because when all's said and done what the hell does it matter :2cent:
Amen. I agree completely

(Leah, according to US law, I am a minority. :roll: )

[The Harper]

Amen. I agree completely

(Leah, according to US law, I am a minority. :roll: )

And its not the done thing to blag on about it in the UK. Just out of interest I applied for a job with our local council where I was told that describing myself on the application as English wasn't an acceptable option. Which seems crazy as I am English it says I was born in the City of Plymouth in the County of Devon the last bit of england before you get to Cornwall :devil:

[Ryuu]

Harper, I cant really see where your coming from... The very definiton of "race" is people with genetically different skin colors... *shrug* how can there be no race? Obviously we're not different BREEDS... but Race...in a technical sense, "Breed" & "Race" are pretty much the same thing

we use "Breed" for dogs, cats, horses, & other animals

we use "Race" for humans (or differing inteligent species when used in SciFi)

In truth, we are all one "Species"--we are all cross-fertile with each other and our offsrping breed true with all other members of the "Species"

"Breed" or "Race" are traits that genetically pass down and distinguish one geographic-originated ancestory from another. "Breeds" or "Races" can intermix, but the children of interracial couples can can diverge and "separate" back into the "Races" of their grandparents.

The same thing can be done with the offspring of animals: take the pups from a collie/doberman mix and breed them together, you have a 50% chance of retaining the "mixed" result, but a 25% chance of getting a pup that for all purposes, are indistinguishable from a collie, and 25% chance of a pup indistinguishable from a doberman.

Of course, there may still be some elements of a crossing in the so-called "purebreed" results, but the pattern holds for the most part--a collie with a doberman's nose, for instance.

Humans have a wider variety with our traits--even within the "Races": blonde wavy-to-straight hair in Nordic whites to thick-stranded black hair in Mediterranian whites. Early studies in genetics, however, showed that children of black/white couples having children with other black/white mixes retained the "mix" only 50% of the time, and had reverted equally to either black or white the other 50%.

By no means, does this imply that any one "Race" is superior to another. Environmental factors once forced our ancestors to develop those racial traits in order to survive. Our subsequent explorations, migrations, and interminglings, as well as our modifications to the environment to suit ourselves has made (for the most part) our racial traits to be just cosmetic oddities rather than survival mechanisms in the modern world.

[leahiniowa]

I'm certainly for everyone treating everyone equal. And it's a shock to hear someone speaking about MY community of people as "I hear THEY don't . . . ." in a disparaging tone of voice. Or for MY tax dollars to pay for Xmas decorations in our town, and the city council voting DOWN their approval for us putting up Chanukah decorations that WE paid for privately. Or for my friend's father to be told that it's nice to see a "boy" like him (35 yr old black man) trying to better himself by going to med school. (He'd wanted a change from practicing law.)

Although honestly? There are certain ethnic groups I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable being around. Ones with a known reputation for random and terroristic violence. On an individual level, that's one thing. But there are countries I would never visit (although I am banned from most of those countries anyway, just because of my "race").

[C_ris]

And its not the done thing to blag on about it in the UK. Just out of interest I applied for a job with our local council where I was told that describing myself on the application as English wasn't an acceptable option. Which seems crazy as I am English it says I was born in the City of Plymouth in the County of Devon the last bit of england before you get to Cornwall :devil:
British would be the correct explanation. Ther is NO English, Welsh, or Scottish nationality. What does it say in your passport? BRITSIH. England Scotland and Wales befoer devolution had no more - infact less - truism than counties. Now that is ony true for England. But there is still no English, Scottish or Welsh nationality.

[Danae]

I went for the subconsiously one. The town I grew up I wasn't exposed to other races than American and Hispanic. I try to look at everyone equally though because I try to imagine how I would feel if I were prejiduced(sp) against. Sometimes my mind slips though. :blush:

[The Harper]

British would be the correct explanation. Ther is NO English, Welsh, or Scottish nationality. What does it say in your passport? BRITSIH. England Scotland and Wales befoer devolution had no more - infact less - truism than counties. Now that is ony true for England. But there is still no English, Scottish or Welsh nationality.


You try telling that to either a Scot or Welshperson and they will usually explain quite forcefully why there is indeed a Socttish or Welsh nationality.

[The Harper]

I'm certainly for everyone treating everyone equal. And it's a shock to hear someone speaking about MY community of people as "I hear THEY don't . . . ." in a disparaging tone of voice. Or for MY tax dollars to pay for Xmas decorations in our town, and the city council voting DOWN their approval for us putting up Chanukah decorations that WE paid for privately. Or for my friend's father to be told that it's nice to see a "boy" like him (35 yr old black man) trying to better himself by going to med school. (He'd wanted a change from practicing law.)

Although honestly? There are certain ethnic groups I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable being around. Ones with a known reputation for random and terroristic violence. On an individual level, that's one thing. But there are countries I would never visit (although I am banned from most of those countries anyway, just because of my "race").

I can certainly understand that I was once banned from going to Spain because I was in the RAF not at any high level you understand just an airman but it caused a lot of headaches if we wanted to go for a holiday.
I would be extremely annoyed that my Council Tax was being wasted on Decorations for several reasons firstly the sheer waste of money let the chamber of commerce dig into it's collective pocket. Secondly because the religious festival they purport to celebrate is about nine months or so out of kilter. For me its just midwinter Solstice. Stereotyping people from different ethnic groups is both wrong and ignorance which lets face it is the main cause of bigotry. Having said that I did see a series of documentaries about how white americans treated the Indian peoples lying to them cheating them stealing and spreading disease which horrified me but probably the English treated the Irish just as badly so I should bear some of my nations guilt.
One of the reasons I get so uptight about the term racist is because it becomes almost a PC comment and therefore a fast and convienient way of labelling something that actually needs to dragged out to embarass the people who actively behave in that way. So I call them Bigots, xenophobes, colour predjudiced. There's a probably a few other names but that will do for now it's also better to label by the type of predjudice that people exhibit whether its ethnic religious or possibly even political. Long rant but thats me .

[T'ley]

You are confusing race with nationality which everyone seems to do. The term Racism is just an conveinient PC term when what people really mean is they are colour prejudiced religiously prejudiced and are against various other minorities.

Ahhhhh. When you put it like that I am not realy Prejudiced (whew) just against the currend GOVERNMENT!!!!!!!!! (Blair-Bush) so I did NOT vote labour in the election. (Neither did i vote UKIP). :ok:

[granath]

You try telling that to either a Scot or Welshperson and they will usually explain quite forcefully why there is indeed a Socttish or Welsh nationality.

There's a difference between citizenship and regio-cultural affiliation, so the term nationality is a bit misleading here.

Oh, and I lived in Plymouth in 1984-85, my Americanized spelling notwithstanding. :devil:

[leahiniowa]

Granath, I'm so glad you just posted. I today took #1 up to an oral surgeon for a consultation and there was a copy of Discovery magazine, or was it Discover? Anyway, there was an article in it about Finland and the concept of race. They said in the article homo sapiens is a species and it can be hard to define race but if they did one of the clearest defined genetic races would be Finns. Because due to the climate and topography and geographical location of the country, it had been settle in a such a way that there ended up being a tremendous amount of inbreeding over the centuries, and the diploids (alleles, chromosomes and genetic markers and such) were all so similar that it is easy to trace genetic variations. Also that the Finns kept meticulous church records of geneologies and causes of death, etc., and that genetic mutations could be traced back to one or two particular people in whom the mutation first appeared.

ALSO, they said that the Finns are a great subgroup within which to do research b/c
1. The Finns are pro-research and have no reservations about being in studies, they are easy to research
2. There are basically the same foods for sale all over the country and everyone gets the same medical care (which also makes old medical records easy to research), so many environmental variables can be ruled out.

Also they said that the city of Helsinki was (surprise surprise) the most heterogeneous as far as population and genetic diversity go.

[C_ris]

You try telling that to either a Scot or Welshperson and they will usually explain quite forcefully why there is indeed a Socttish or Welsh nationality.
But they would also be wrong. Scotland and Wales may be having a revival in 'nationalism' but it will last only until some comes up to unite Britain together as an island.

Nationality is a misleading concept, and is based on both citizenship and 'cultural affiliation'. But your nationality is derived from your passport. Which says British.

[The Harper]

But they would also be wrong. Scotland and Wales may be having a revival in 'nationalism' but it will last only until some comes up to unite Britain together as an island.

Nationality is a misleading concept, and is based on both citizenship and 'cultural affiliation'. But your nationality is derived from your passport. Which says British.

I know that. :roll:

[The Harper]

Granath, I'm so glad you just posted. I today took #1 up to an oral surgeon for a consultation and there was a copy of Discovery magazine, or was it Discover? Anyway, there was an article in it about Finland and the concept of race. They said in the article homo sapiens is a species and it can be hard to define race but if they did one of the clearest defined genetic races would be Finns. Because due to the climate and topography and geographical location of the country, it had been settle in a such a way that there ended up being a tremendous amount of inbreeding over the centuries, and the diploids (alleles, chromosomes and genetic markers and such) were all so similar that it is easy to trace genetic variations. Also that the Finns kept meticulous church records of geneologies and causes of death, etc., and that genetic mutations could be traced back to one or two particular people in whom the mutation first appeared.

ALSO, they said that the Finns are a great subgroup within which to do research b/c
1. The Finns are pro-research and have no reservations about being in studies, they are easy to research
2. There are basically the same foods for sale all over the country and everyone gets the same medical care (which also makes old medical records easy to research), so many environmental variables can be ruled out.

Also they said that the city of Helsinki was (surprise surprise) the most heterogeneous as far as population and genetic diversity go.

I wonder what these same researchers would make of the primitive tribe known as Essex man? A Truely barbaric sub species of human. :devil:

[T'ley]

I wonder what these same researchers would make of the primitive tribe known as Essex man? A Truely barbaric sub species of human. :devil:
:rofl:

[C_ris]

I wonder what these same researchers would make of the primitive tribe known as Essex man? A Truely barbaric sub species of human. :devil:
:irked: they're not all (quite) like that!

[leahiniowa]

Oh yes, isn't that where they excavate piles of beer cans, football paraphernalia and tabloid newspapers?

[The Harper]

Oh yes, isn't that where they excavate piles of beer cans, football paraphernalia and tabloid newspapers?

Well the females of the tribe tend to wear white stiletto heeled shoes and dance round their handbags. The males had a tendency to wear shell suits white socks and think it was clever to own anti social dogs. There was a rumour once that it was intended to wall them up in two enclaves Romford and Basildon. An essex girl's favourite wine is "Take me to Lakeside" (this is a local shopping mall that sells kewl stuff apparently)

[C_ris]

Well the females of the tribe tend to wear white stiletto heeled shoes and dance round their handbags. The males had a tendency to wear shell suits white socks and think it was clever to own anti social dogs. There was a rumour once that it was intended to wall them up in two enclaves Romford and Basildon. An essex girl's favourite wine is "Take me to Lakeside" (this is a local shopping mall that sells kewl stuff apparently)
I repeat: :irked:

I am in Essex, and it is nothing like that!!! (The North is much, MUCH worse! :p)

[geishagirl]

I don't get it :confused:

[Milo]

I don't get it :confused:
British rednecks maybe? :roll:

[C_ris]

British rednecks maybe? :roll:
similar.

[Milo]

similar.
without the drawl?

[geishagirl]

Hmmmmm rednecks are normal around here, but we call them yoopers. They call me a troll because I'm from below the bridge. But it's all in fun. ;)

[The Harper]

I repeat: :irked:

I am in Essex, and it is nothing like that!!! (The North is much, MUCH worse! :p)
And where do you think I live ??? Braintree and it is like that Lol :devil:

[T'ley]

I repeat: :irked:

I am in Essex, and it is nothing like that!!! (The North is much, MUCH worse! :p)
I must say the north has its share as well. I'm from the South :p.

[C_ris]

And where do you think I live ??? Braintree and it is like that Lol :devil:
It must be the influence of the Uni here then!!!

[The Harper]

It must be the influence of the Uni here then!!!

Yeah it must be have you tried going to some of the bars around the garrison that let the animals in because there you can see essex gilr stalking their prey.