The big "What If"

[BeckyMildan]

Ok, here is a “what if” situation. Half way through the pass Ramoth rises and for some reason Mnementh (pick any reason you want) doesn’t catch her. Another bronze does the deed. What do you think Lessa’s reaction would be? How do you think that F’lar would react? How do you think that they would deal with it?

[Anareth]

Wow. You mean how do I think it would be, or how do I think Anne would write it?

I have a hard time imagining it, but I suspect that, unless she really liked him and tolerated him, Lessa would make that bronze rider's life hell. I don't know how F'lar would react--for some reason, I really can't see it. I don't think he'd take being out of charge well, though. He might try to put a brave face on it, but it would be a personal rejection PLUS a political loss, as he'd no longer be Weyrleader. I suspect it would depend a bit, at least, on why Mnementh lost--if he was flying normally and Ramoth was simply caught by someone else, it might seem more like a personal betrayal, but if he lost because he was injured, it might be more a fluke--in that scenario I can see the bronze rider who won feeling a lot of pressure, reminders he's just an interim leader.He could either be a pushover about it, and let F'lar run things, or go the other way and try to really take over.

I would think if Anne ever did something like that, though, she'd find a way for F'lar to be the real Weyrleader, outright or just de facto. Either the new guy would just be incompetant and everyone looked to F'lar, or he'd willingly be a puppet for F'lar.

[TamTam]

In the middle of the pass? I think F'lar would take it well on a personal level, since he knows how dedicated Lessa is to him and how close Ramoth and Mnementh are. On a professional level, I think it would drive him nuts! I'm not sure he could do anything about it except wait for Ramoth's next flight. As much as he may dislike not being Weyrleader, he wouldn't do anything to disrupt the Weyr or get in the new Weyrleader's way.

As for Lessa, I think she'd take the opportunity to gain more political power. Maybe not as much as if it happened at the beginning of the pass, but still, she's something of a control freak and could certainly turn anything to her advantage!

[granath]

Interesting question. Anne's been pretty adamant that nobody except Mnementh will ever fly Ramoth, so I very much doubt that scenario'll ever be written. The speculation's interesting though. The only way I could see it happen would be for Mnementh to be too badly threadscored to fly. The interim WL would probably be made very well aware that he's only there until Ramoth next rises, by the entire Weyr.

[C_ris]

I agree that if Ramoth was flown by another bronze, then whoever became WL would be let known by all those by him that he was only an interim leader. I also do not think that F'lar would take not being in charge very well either. But as Mnementh is "the biggest one" then unless he was injured or absent for some reason, then he would not fail to catch Ramoth, especially considering that whether a bronze has flown a queen before often affects how they mate the next time (White Dragon) then that would make it even less likely.

Another point: it seems also that queens stop rising before bronzes (White Dragon: the queens of the Oldtimers stop rising, but the bronzes still want to mate) then i feel that it is likely that despite the age gap (of about 10 Turns, i think) then Mnementh will be able to catch Ramoth for as long as she continues to rise.

[fuzzypaws]

That is the fun of "what if", no one knows and few venture to guess. I betcha that if Mnementh could not fly Ramoth then the mating may happen between whoever catches her and their life would be pure pandamonium till Ramoth rises again. Lessa would not be happy so the weyr would not be happy. I don't think anyone would be brave enough to try. Just me.

[Weyrwoman Kalina]

Interesting question. Anne's been pretty adamant that nobody except Mnementh will ever fly Ramoth, so I very much doubt that scenario'll ever be written. The speculation's interesting though. The only way I could see it happen would be for Mnementh to be too badly threadscored to fly. The interim WL would probably be made very well aware that he's only there until Ramoth next rises, by the entire Weyr.

I also remember Anne implying that (well, okay, making it clear) that Mnementh would be the only one to ever fly Ramoth.

But, back to the "what if"... I do think that F'lar would very much be affected by it, seeing as how he is pretty dedicated not only to Lessa, but to being a leader to the Weyr. I'm sure he'd go crazy not being in command, and I doubt Lessa would tolerate anyone other than F'lar in that position.

[DuchessPariah]

My friend and I are both at the computer.

"What if..."

Anyone here seen "How to lose a guy in ten days?"

Now, picture Lessa saying this instead of Andie Anderson.

"I'm gonna make you wish you were dead." Include the seductressly evil smile.

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Wow, thats exactly what Lessa would say. I feel sorry for the poor soul that tries to butt between her and F'lar. I'm getting shudders right now imagining the cold icy look in her eyes!! :eek:

[DuchessPariah]

Wow, thats exactly what Lessa would say. I feel sorry for the poor soul that tries to butt between her and F'lar. I'm getting shudders right now imagining the cold icy look in her eyes!! :eek:

*siddles up to BDR* *hands over a fleece blanket* *grins and runs away* :runaway:

[Mausey]

Lessa realizing F'lar and Mnementh are unable to make the flight secretly goes back a couple turns and has Ramonth rise there. Being as only F'lar and Lessa know about this they can keep the secret. Lessa and Ramonth return to the proper time and the entire wery is puzzled by the way Ramonth has suddenly gone off cycle. :laugh: :laugh:

How's that? :D

[DuchessPariah]

Lessa realizing F'lar and Mnementh are unable to make the flight secretly goes back a couple turns and has Ramonth rise there. Being as only F'lar and Lessa know about this they can keep the secret. Lessa and Ramonth return to the proper time and the entire wery is puzzled by the way Ramonth has suddenly gone off cycle. :laugh: :laugh:

How's that? :D

Nice. You cheated, but nice. ;)

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Good work, Mausey, that sounds like the devious sort of thing Lessa would try to pull off. :evil:

[Brenda]

Why keep it simple? What if Canth flew Ramoth?

[Kitsch]

Oooh, the delicious fighting possibilities.

How about if Mnementh had flown Pridith? :devil:

[fuzzypaws]

It boggles the mind. Ummm just a thought 'they didn't have nukes on Pern did they.' They might have gotten used.

[Lady Arwyn]

Imagine Lessa's reaction when the mating flight is over and Lessa realizes for the first time *gasp* that the man she is with is not F'lar.

:scared: :runaway:

[BD1]

It'd be bizzare (sp?) if Canth flew Ramoth!!!!!!!!!!! What would Brekke do???????:confused: :redfruit: :redfruit: :redfruit: :redfruit: hee hee

[Ryuu]

Imagine Lessa's reaction when the mating flight is over and Lessa realizes for the first time *gasp* that the man she is with is not F'lar.

:scared: :runaway:F'nor grins: "Hi there!" :D

:laugh:

[Ryuu]

It'd be bizzare (sp?) if Canth flew Ramoth!!!!!!!!!!! What would Brekke do???????:confused: :redfruit: :redfruit: :redfruit: :redfruit: hee heesooooo....will somebody take up the challenge and head off to the FFF??? :fiend:

[fuzzypaws]

Not me. F'nor? What did he do to you? Lessa could and would Kill him. And then hide the body under the ketchup.

[AnnMarie]

sooooo....will somebody take up the challenge and head off to the FFF??? :fiend:


I am daring and I am crazy...I am neither THAT daring or crazy, however!

[BD1]

Imagine Lessa's shock if after a mating flight, she turns to the man who's dragon caught Ramoth to discover it's R'gul!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :faint: :faint: :faint: :eek: :eek: hee hee Or a BLUE rider is the new Weyrleader!!!!!!!!! hee hee :redfruit: :redfruit:

[Lady Arwyn]

I suspect that if a blue got anywhere near to flying Ramoth she'd literally rip his head off. She is a reflection of Lessa, very aware of her place in the hierarchy. and sensitive of anything associated with the position. A blue that got too close would insult her pride beyond all reason.

[B`dgyr]

Wow. Even imagining that is beyond me. But....I actually think that Mausey's post is right. I could see Lessa doing exactly that!

[Ryuu]

I suspect that if a blue got anywhere near to flying Ramoth she'd literally rip his head off. She is a reflection of Lessa, very aware of her place in the hierarchy. and sensitive of anything associated with the position. A blue that got too close would insult her pride beyond all reason.not DURING the flight! :eek: When Ramoth (or any gold dragon) is flying, only another gold (and possibly greens) would be endangered.

....afterwards...well...maybe.... :devil:

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

not DURING the flight! :eek: When Ramoth (or any gold dragon) is flying, only another gold (and possibly greens) would be endangered.

....afterwards...well...maybe.... :devil:

How would that be? Unless two golds rose to mate at the same time in the same place. But if a blue somehow managed to fly close enough to Ramoth in her flight, she wouldn't give him the opportunity to mate with her, she'd just mangle him in mid-air. I don't see how Ramoth would permit a blue, let alone even another bronze than Mnementh, fly her.

[Tabra]

*Plays devil's advocate*

I think, as F'lar is Weyrbred, he'd have to know that every time Ramoth rose, there's a chance Mnemeth wouldn't win. Dragons get threadscores, they get old, the wind turns...etc.
So, once he got over the shock, I think he'd be working with the new Weyrleader for the sake of Pern. He worked hard to hold it together, without letting it fall apart for the sake of his own overblown ego.
And he'd spend a lot of time placating Lessa, who would probably play both men against each other to her advantage. :devil:

[Ryuu]

In addition to what Tabra said, & I fully agree that would be the outcome from F'lar's aspect...Lessa might be another matter. However, How would that be? Unless two golds rose to mate at the same time in the same place. But if a blue somehow managed to fly close enough to Ramoth in her flight, she wouldn't give him the opportunity to mate with her, she'd just mangle him in mid-air. I don't see how Ramoth would permit a blue, let alone even another bronze than Mnementh, fly her.Throughout the series, they have ALWAYS tried to ensure no golds (rising or not) are about when a queen is about to blood! Even the unenhanced natives (refer to Dragonsdrums when Menolly & Sebell are becalmed at sea--Menolly sends Beauty away when Kimi begins to blood!) They learned that lesson back with that short story in First Fall where Three queens were involved in a mateflight disaster.

Remember that Ramoth is desperately trying to keep even Mnementh from catching her...it's not like she has *any* conscious choice to pick him. Given that the natives in Flight have no *conscious* desissions about who/what gets to Fly her--they've got to *catch* her first! Afterwards, Ramoth might get a little peeved...and only because Lessa might get upset. I think the dragon, left to her own decission would simply tell Mnementh Better luck next time :O

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

I'm a bit confused by your previous posts... before you said that only another gold or perhaps green would be in danger when she is flying, how would that be if there are not supposed to be any other golds around?

And you're right, Ramoth definately tries to outfly even Mnementh, but since Lessa would be outraged if anoyone else caught her, Ramoth partially reflects that. I agree totally with Lady Arwyn that Ramoth would take it as an affront to her pride and status if a lowly blue caught her - she just *would not allow* a blue to catch her under any circumstances. (In my mind anyway)

If anyone but Mnementh flew her, I think that F'lar would definately be shocked, but like Tabra said, he's a mature rational person and would do his best to contribute for the good of the Weyr. Lessa on the other hand... :darkside:

[Lady Arwyn]

) They learned that lesson back with that short story in First Fall where Three queens were involved in a mateflight disaster.

Remember that Ramoth is desperately trying to keep even Mnementh from catching her...it's not like she has *any* conscious choice to pick him. :O

The first instinct is to try to get away from the males, but if you read the mating flight scene in DF, after Ramoth has "lost" all but three bronzes she drops back to look at her "choices". She could not bear Hath, but Orth was a fine young beast, she decides on Orth when Mnementh took her by suprise...

So there is concious thought/decision towards the end of the flight.

[Ryuu]

I'm a bit confused by your previous posts... before you said that only another gold or perhaps green would be in danger when she is flying, how would that be if there are not supposed to be any other golds around?After the Oldtimers arrived, Benden Weyr had to come to the realization that they should've had several queens laying clutches loooong before the Pass. But since Ramoth had become accustomed to being the only gold for Benden, they had a hard time getting her to accept more. F'lar and Lessa did finally get Ramoth to accept 2 other golds, but no more--this added to the contention they had with the Oldtimers since any excess queen Ramoth or her daughters produced had to be shacked up in their already crowded Weyrs--and with those golds being so much bigger than their own.... :roll:

For safety, whenever a gold was set to rise, the other gold riders removed their queens from the Weyr--even if they were not about to rise--to keep the proddy queen from attacking the "potential rival".

I don't know if the same precautions were needed for greens, however...that's never actually addressed anywhere in the books, but logic and common sense would seem to apply.

Anne could probably make a ruling to say otherwise...but for me, I'd rather not piss off any creature that's 20-40 feet long, can fly, and already out of its mind due to hormone imballances---it's just not the wise thing to do! :devil:

[Lady Arwyn]

There has already been a "ruling" made on the greens. According to Anne, the greens are simply "overly firendly" and just happy to have a male of any color/in any numbers chasing them. They are not competitive at all.

Considering that 2-3 greens rise to mate every day in each Weyr, it would be logistic insanity to try to remove other greens every time one was about to fly.

[Shalyn]

Lessa realizing F'lar and Mnementh are unable to make the flight secretly goes back a couple turns and has Ramonth rise there. Being as only F'lar and Lessa know about this they can keep the secret. Lessa and Ramonth return to the proper time and the entire wery is puzzled by the way Ramonth has suddenly gone off cycle. :laugh: :laugh:

How's that? :D

Then let them even wonder more when Ramoth Clutches!!!

F'lar would be upset, yes, but being Weyrborn and bred, he has to assume it's going to happen sometime. Even if it never does, he has to stay on his toes. But I agree with Tabra - that he'd help out the new Weyrleader, maybe even creating the first canon WeyrSecond. Weyrseconds are in Fandom, but not really canon.

Lessa - well, she'd be a bit more upset. However, she's older and more mature if this is happening during the middle of the pass. I doubt she'd rip anyone's head off, she'd just get up, say "thanks for the ride", and go on with business as usual. Since she IS Weyrwoman, she'd be able to nip any unwanted change in the bud. She'd still sleep with F'lar, and probably use her leaning to get the new WL to use F'lar's advice. The LAST thing she needs to do is act like a crossed wherry in front of everyone.

Ramoth - she's a queen in heat. She wants the best of the best to mate with her - that's pure instinct. If she thinks that H'unk's bronze Hunkahunketh is a better dragon than Mnementh, she'd probably do the same thing as she did with Orth and Mnementh - fix her sights on one, but not be too surprised if the other catches her.

Actually, it's harder to figure out how the two dragons would react than the riders. Because we never really get an idea on just how intelligent, and how autonomous a dragon can be.

[Aurelia]

What would've happened if Hath caught Ramoth?!?!?

[Kath]

Unlikely, given Ramoth/Lessa's disapproval.

But. I imagine F'lar and co would have continued their preparations for thread on a more limited scale, until Lessa got pissed off enough to chuck R'gul out of her weyr (and perhaps not via the stairs). Once thread started falling, things would have settled down a bit more.

The main issue is whether Lessa/Ramoth would have started flying/betweening unassisted, and died in the process.