Timeline: Dragon's Kin

[Nefermiw]

I've recently read Dragon's Kin and I'm a bit confused as to when it takes place. I know it is before a pass, but when is it e.g. before or after the Lessa era? Have someone made a nice timeline with the books so one can figure out what is happeneing when?

(Oh, and what's up with having the watch whers fly - that is just not neccessary :roll: .)

:bouncy:

[ChrisG]

Near the end of the second Interval, after DragonsEye/Red Star Rising and before Moreta. Well before Lessa's time. There's a nice timeline on Sariel's (http://pern.srellim.org/chrono.htm) site. Dunno about the placement of Ever the Twain, but that's a different topic.

And the flying, betweening, telepathic watch-wher's are a sore subject with me, as well. :roll: All they're missing is the ability the breathe fire ... or perhaps we just haven't seen that yet.

[Nefermiw]

Thank you ChrisG for the quick response and especially the link to the timeline :ok: .
I figured that Dragon's Kin would have to be well before Lessa's time since there aren't any mentioning of AIVAS-technology in Dragon's Kin ;) .

:bouncy:

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Thanx for the link ChrisG. I knew that Dragonskin was quite early in Pern's history, but didn't realize that Ever the Twain was even before that. I'm also a tad skeptical about all the abilities of Whatchwhers, but whatever. I would have thought that if they discovered the latent abilities in whers, it would quickly become common knowledge in all Pern, because it could be very useful. But it seems as if that has become forgotten in modern day Pern.

Since alot of books' timelines overlap each other, is there a site that shows even more precise timing, like when to switch over to another novel mid-book, for those sticklers (myself included) that like to read in exact chronological order?

[C_ris]

This (http://pern.srellim.org/chrono.htm) is the best that i can find for what you are looking for bronze.

[Lady Arwyn]

I'm pretty sure Dragon's Kin takes place about a decade before the 3rd Pass, since Todd is primarily taking the 3rd Pass as "his" area of Pern in which to play.

I think Ever the Twain may be around the same time, maybe a Pass earlier.

[Hans]

Near the end of the second Interval, after DragonsEye/Red Star Rising and before Moreta. Well before Lessa's time. There's a nice timeline on Sariel's (http://pern.srellim.org/chrono.htm) site. Dunno about the placement of Ever the Twain, but that's a different topic.

And the flying, betweening, telepathic watch-wher's are a sore subject with me, as well. :roll: All they're missing is the ability the breathe fire ... or perhaps we just haven't seen that yet.I agree with you Chirs, and -- concerning the watchwhers -- it will get even worse... :(
But... I'm still glad with all new data concerning Pern. It's the archivist/genealogist in me, I can't help it :) :roll:

[Lady Arwyn]

I'm not bothered in the least about the inconsistencies between the treatment/view of the whers between the 3rd and the 9th Passes. Attitudes and knowledge change.

Look at cats. They were revered in ancient Egypt (the law said that in case of a house fire, the cat had to be rescued before the people!), reviled and killed whenever found in the Dark Ages, and is now a popular companion animal.

I see Pern has having had a Dark Ages, between the 3rd Interval and the 9th Pass. So much knowledge was lost when they completed the transition between the end of the Pernese Computer age and headed into the beginning of the "Age of Halls." If they can forget AIVAS, if they can forget the trip from another planet, if they can forget the volcano that destroyed their first settlement, then it would be just as easy to forget the true nature of watchwhers. Especially if, for some reason, someone wanted people to forget. But there is a much les insidious reason to forget.

How many warriors did great, epic, brave things that have never been talked about, while Sgt York and General MacArthur paraded through the streets? Do their heroics not exist because they weren't in a situation that people wrote about them? One of the things I've learned about in Journalism is "if it's not written about, it didn't happen.". It's easy to overlook the abilities of something ugly that mostly exists underground and at night to focus on the abilities of a great majestic beast with the same but greater powers. As a chronicler, which would you be more likely to write about?

After all, the Dark Ages existed immediately after the fall of Alexandria and the destruction of the library there, immediately after what was arguably the most educated society in Earth's history.

[C_ris]

oh so true Lady Arwyn. And we have a perfect example with 'The Ballad of Moreta's Ride', and the real story in the Moreta, Dragonlady of Pern. In the Ninth Pass then they did not know even that Moreta had not been on Orlith!

[Nefermiw]

Erm... maybe a bit off topic, but I've never read anything about ancient Egyptians being bound by law to save the cat in case of a fire. Lady Arwyn, can you remember where you have read/heard that? We haven't got very many written sources (e.g. compared with Mesopotamia) from the Ancient Egypt.

About the wher-thing: I liked the watch whers as they were. I liked that the dragons were the romantic/majestic creatures and that the firelizards were the spontaneous/flittery creatures and to complete the picture we had the whers as the trusty/reliable not-much-happening-here creature. All three together had it all. Of course Anne can invent what she likes, but I just don't see the necessity to romantizise the whers.

:bouncy:

[ChrisG]

I dunno, somehow forgetting that watchwhers can fly? If the watch-whers somehow lose that ability, okay, but... Well, I guess they did forget about using watch-whers in the mines as well. In TWD, Master Nicat inquires of Jaxom if he has any fire-lizard eggs to spare, as fire lizards are very useful in sniffing out gas pockets.

[ChrisG]

It's in the introduction, Devcca, everyone else. From Dragon's Kin
Toward the end of the Second Interval, with only sixteen Turns before the return of the Red Star, Thread, and the beginning of the Third Pass, a problem arose for the miners.

[Anneli]

I agree with ChrisG :D

And some of the same characters pop up in Todd's new book "Dragon's Blood" which is set in the very early years of the Third Pass.

[Ian]

Concerning the ability of watch-whers to fly, remember Mnementh's comment about the Ruathan watch-wher in Dragonflight where he mentions it being wing-clipped. Why clip the wings of a creature that can't fly?

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Good point, Ian.

[Taluria]

thanks for that info Ian...

[Brenda]

If they stopped "blooding" the watchwhers, or if too many people were hurt in spite of that, maybe they started taking the precaution of chains and clipping wings. Although the watchwher in DF knew that Lessa was of the blood, so maybe they blooded to the Lord's family?

[fuzzypaws]

B I am pretty sure you are right. You would blood to the family that owned you so they would not eat you if you sneaked out to go for a drive and came home really late. Much like you train a watch dog to the family memebers that he watches.

[ChrisG]

Okay, so where's the sense in chaining a watch-wher when it can just go between? :)

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Unless the whers don't *know* they can go between. Its something that has to be taught isn't it? Just like the dragons didn't realize they had the telekinesis untill mid-9th Pass. The whers could probably discover it if something brought it out instinctively, but normally I don't think they're intelligent enough to figure it out on their own. I can't remember how the watchwher did it in Dragons Kin, been awhile since I read it.

[ChrisG]

No one taught Dask how to do it, he just wanted to get to the lake without having to walk/fly there. And tormenting the watch-wher is a favorite pastime of kids, throwing bright glows into its lair or giving it noxious things to eat. And if you read 'wing-clipped' as actually clipping the poor creature's wings off ... I'd definitely think a watch-wher would go between before allowing that to happen.

[Lady Arwyn]

They're probably wing-clipped at Hatching, likely with enough numbweed slathered on their wings so that they don't feel it until it's too late. And can a Wher hatchling go Between? Dragon hatchlings can't seem to do it. Only firelizard hatchlings who are much smaller and therefore need less development to fly.

We already know it's a safety hazard to go Between from the ground, and with a chain around it's neck would probably be a pretty good disincentive to trying, even if only instinctively. There is a certain mindset when you're chained to a rock and have never known any other kind of life. Dask knew a very different, freer way of life. And Dask's predecessor would probably never have died if his instinct led him down that path.

And Marco's dragon instinctively knew how to go Between, but it didn't help them.

Like Zaranth learning to use her telekenesis, after 2500 years she was the first dragon to figure it out on her own, like Ruth who always knew *when* he was, there are always exceptional individuals that can just "do" without training. The others either do it wrong and die, or never have the imagination to try.

[fuzzypaws]

Or they learn form the ones that do know how to do something and then try to prefect it.

[Vyon]

I doubt that "wing-clipped" means taking the wings off. It's probably more like what we do to the hens when we don't want them to fly over the fence - Halving the length of the flight feathers on one side. No point in doing both sides, they just flap twice as hard. Maybe trimming some of the flight sail on one side?

And maybe watch-whers have become rare because they don't have the same control of betweening as dragons. They have to visualise the place that they are going to, which might be rather difficult for the whers to do with their photosensitivity.

[Lady Arwyn]

Or they learn form the ones that do know how to do something and then try to prefect it.
If they learn from each other, then how did the dragons forget how to go Between Time after Moreta died? The golds and bronzes knew how to go Between Times, but he didn't know how to GO somewhere. And Weyrling dragons have to learn to go Between from their riders, who learn it from their Weyrlingmaster. In Moreta the green dragonrider figured out how to go Between Times by accident, it was supposed to be a secret kept only to bronze and goldriders,passed from rider to rider. Not dragon to dragon. . So appearantly they don't learn from each other.

We keep forgetting, Kitti Ping took the dragons' memory center from them, they have no long term memory, so while they can do some things instinctually, a few things left over from the firelizards, they have to be instructed to do stuff. Marco's dragon instinctually knew how to go Between, but he didn't know how to come back out, something that firelizards are born with.

So they are either taught by humans, or they learn by accident. and just keep doing whatever that skill was often enough that it doesn't leave their short-term memory (supposedly about two days).

Since the Watch-Whers are modified dragons, they would have the same memory problems. Also, they are separated from their own kind before they are hatched, so they never get the chance to learn from their own kind what little can be taught.