A strange dream, or what would you do?

[Priscilla]

I had an odd dream last night. As usual I can look back on it and pinpoint various parts of it that were "taken" from daily or recent activity, but the main theme of the dream got me thinking. Here's the scene:

I'm in a small, rectangular room. One of the smaller walls is open to the air, and looks out on a beach, where there is a fair number of people and in the distance on the sand is a wide black bridge, that stretches in two sections, up into the sky. This, I am told is the bridge that leads to heaven. Getting back to the room. There are "officials" there, with forms they are handing out to people to fill out to be "allowed" to go up that bridge and into heaven. I'm there with several other people I know, but none of my family. I watch as these people I know fill out the forms, and get ready to leave, and all I can say over and over to them is "what about your - husband, wife, children" that is, family!? They don't answer me, and I can't seem to get an answer from anyone else as to whether this is the "only" chance to go to heaven or if there will be other opportunities. So, I decide I'm not going. The dream moved off to something else then, but it's been on my mind all day.

Here's a thought. If you believe in a heaven/after life, and were offered a chance to go, but for some unknown reason the ones you loved were going to be left behind, would you go? I think I'd rather be snuffed out and gone in oblivion than spend eternity missing the people I love. Any opinions?

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Absolutely not. Heaven wouldn't be heaven without the people I love, and if I were to take advantage of that opportunity without them that would be incredibly selfish. What good is an eternity in perfection if you have the knowledge that you've abandoned them?

[C_ris]

How can Heaven exist for you without those you love?

[Monkeysrule]

How can Heaven exist for you without those you love?
How can heaven exist at all? It's all a paradox. It would be fake and artificial to have the illusions that your loved ones are in "heaven" with you when really they're not. Going to heaven is selfish, and selfish people don't go to heaven. How does it work?

[Lady Arwyn]

How can heaven exist at all? It's all a paradox. It would be fake and artificial to have the illusions that your loved ones are in "heaven" with you when really they're not. Going to heaven is selfish, and selfish people don't go to heaven. How does it work?
:confused:

I think you just hurt my brain.

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

How can heaven exist at all? It's all a paradox. It would be fake and artificial to have the illusions that your loved ones are in "heaven" with you when really they're not. Going to heaven is selfish, and selfish people don't go to heaven. How does it work?
Going to heaven under that circumstance would be selfish. But under the traditional belief that the people who had led good, honest lives go to heaven after they die (which I don't completely ascribe to), is not. So did you mean the existance of heaven just under this particular situation or in general?

[Teh Crazy Dragoness]

Well...I asked my Sunday school teachers about this, since I have a really close friend who is an atheist.

They said that you won't remember the people you know that didn't get there, since in Heaven you're supposed to be happy, and if you're sad about the people that didn't make it into Heaven, you can't be happy.

I don't like the idea at all, because it makes me question too many things about my personal beliefs.

Truth be told, the SS teachers weren't too sure about it either.

[Priscilla]

I've heard that theory as well about heaven, and I can't say I like it very much either. It sounds way too controlling to me. "You've" been good, so "you" get to go to heaven, and in order for you not to be sad about missing anyone you know who didn't "make it" we'll erase your memory about them. Not my kind of heaven, or the sort of God I believe in!

[Teh Crazy Dragoness]

I've heard that theory as well about heaven, and I can't say I like it very much either. It sounds way too controlling to me. "You've" been good, so "you" get to go to heaven, and in order for you not to be sad about missing anyone you know who didn't "make it" we'll erase your memory about them. Not my kind of heaven, or the sort of God I believe in!


Exactly!! It just doesn't fit...

[Jaycee]

i think that was a bit weird actually i think i will be stuck in oblivion and not be in heaven missing my family and friends but then again i would like to be in heavan. but thats what i think.

[dae]

please don't flame me for this... But how would you know if your family would go there, because each persons heaven could be some one elses hell, So if you had a choice to go to "heaven" you would never know if your family would go to the same said heaven. because their heaven could have flowers and a different members could be all snow.

Again please don't flame me its just what i think.

[Priscilla]

Now that's an interesting idea I had never thought of. But, if you were all in heaven, maybe you could "visit"?! I couldn't imagine my husband having a vision of "his" heaven without me in it, any more than mine would be without him! And, I'd want most of my family and a bunch of my friends to at least have vacation privileges to come say hi occasionally! :santagrin

[lil green man]

i agree cos if you wanted a heavan to be like a beach resort and somebody wanted it to be like christmas then they would want to be in different places but what if heaven is different in other poeples eyes like i see it with all these flufy clouds but others might not see it that way. poeple have diffrent visions of heavan so then they will all see it diffrently. is that what dae was sort of saying?

merry Crimbo every one :xmaslaugh

[dae]

In away that was what i was saying. It all comes down to a persons choice of what their own heaven would be so if they wanted to be with somebody else then mabye there is a vistors rights

To tell you the truth im not a religous person so the belif that there is a heaven didn't sit with me Nither did the idea of hell because the people who are sent there e.g criminals wuoldn't they like the fact that there is touture and its pretty hard to be perfect so how could you be sent to heaven.

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

I've never thought of it that way... I've always thought of heaven as being one thing, no matter what any particular person's vision of it is - like if they thought it was the pearly gates in clouds with harps, it doesn't mean that that's what it's going to be just because they imagined it that way. I don't think that heaven is what ANYone can imagine. It's not a physical place, so us mortals can't comprehend just what it is or what it will be like. It's on a completely different plane of reality, so how could we possibly know what it will be like?

[dae]

But isn't people who go to heaven meant to be happy for how ever long their souls live (which may i point out wouldn't it be better if people were reborn) which means if it did exist it would have to cater to everyones taste so it couldn't be one thing because of the persons taste. which means we would need to comphrend what is going on in that said plane of existance.

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

How would we know that? All of that is generated by human speculation, not experience. If every good person who died went to heaven, who relays the experience and knowledge? Actually, I don't believe that everyone that has led a good life goes to heaven after life on earth, that isn't a biblically supported theory anyway. And I don't believe in Hell in the slightest.

[Zei]

I just use one quote to explain my beliefs on heaven...

"No man is good enough to go to heaven, and no man is evil enough to go to hell."

:shrug:

[Jaycee]

well thats a good point zei.

[dae]

I don't believe that everyone that has led a good life goes to heaven after life on earth



"No man is good enough to go to heaven, and no man is evil enough to go to hell."




Sy you could go to heaven i wonder how good you would have to be would white lies stop you, would not doing what your parents tell you not let you get in?
Was heaven or hell in the bible?
And if heaven was in the bible would that stop other religions from going there because they follow a different religion?

(and i think i just changed the drections of my thoughs becasue before i was talking about there could be no one set heaven)

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Sy you could go to heaven i wonder how good you would have to be would white lies stop you, would not doing what your parents tell you not let you get in?
Was heaven or hell in the bible?
And if heaven was in the bible would that stop other religions from going there because they follow a different religion?

(and i think i just changed the drections of my thoughs becasue before i was talking about there could be no one set heaven)
Hmmm... ok, now we're getting into deeper Biblical material. Yes, there is Heaven in the Bible, and Hell, at first look it appears to be so. But after deeper research into the matters involved, the concept of hell as most people think of it is a big misunderstanding. I won't go into it more unless you want to hear it, because it's quite a long explanation.

As for who does/doesn't get into heaven (in my belief) it's not so much on a system of merit of who led the best life. The Bible makes no mention of all the "good" people going to heaven after they die, I'm not sure where that belief originated from... As at first, Adam and Eve were intended to live perfect lives without death, they were meant to live on earth forever with no allusion that they'd ever go to heaven. So I don't see why that would suddenly change after they sinned and brought Death upon themselves.

Later, in Matthew 5:5 in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, he says: "Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth." Again, no mention of humans ever going to heaven. The only humans mentioned as going to heaven are 144,000 who are supposed to rule with Christ as Kings.

Again, I just want to make it clear that I don't want to offend anyone with this, it's just my personal opinion after reading the Bible.

[Pat]

Well, I was born/raised a Catholic, so was doused in "religion".

Many years after, I've come to the conclusion that humanity is going to be VERY surprised about heaven/hell, the afterlife, etc. I suspect all the definitions/descriptions that MAN has provided are way off base. Can I tell you what I think it is..no..because I haven't really thought about it..just want to be "surprised" :) But..I do believe that something of us goes on in some form, and we will be with our loved ones in some way.

The way I see it, if those who believe in an afterlife are correct, there are going to be a LOT of stunned non-believers. If they are right, well, ashes to ashes for all of us, it is.

If you read anything about religious beliefs..I think just about all of them have an "afterlife" .. guess Mankind doesn't want to think is will just "wink out".

[Jay_Quessir]

Religion is a madhouse of ideas. It's believing one singular person's word and everyone in the sect believes this one idea. It's really confusing and people have explained it to me before in hundreds of different ways.

Lacuna Coil once said: "Heaven's a lie" and...although I believe in Heaven, that's true. Heaven as we all see it...pearly gates, clouds, everyone who led a good life chillin' on cloud nine...that's a lie. As bronzie said, no one can imagine what it's going to be like.

I want to believe that I'm going to see my family...the ones who passed away...but I don't know if I will. I've sinned. I've sinned deeply and if I were to die tomorrow, I would go to hell by some standards. But heaven would be empty if you had to have a flawless record to get into heaven.

I'm pretty sure the Bible says somewhere that the Lord, though we may repeatedly sin against Him, will always embrace us and forgive us. It's a wonderful thought but how can that solve anything? Sin. "Please, Lord, forgive me." Sin. It's a cycle that on your death bed, you might wish to break and strive for heaven. What about those wonderful people who have done so much good but don't believe in God. Those who sinned before they died and didn't have a chance but were good people otherwise.

I could go on but I'm going to stop and sleep. May come back and edit...maybe

[dae]

Hmmm that post makes me think, i remember talking to one of my friends about god and him forgiving sins which means there can't be a hell. my friend said as long as you ask he will forgive. But then how can there be a heaven if there is no hell? or mabye thats my idea because i think every thing needs something different to it like yin and yang

[Master Harper Andrea]

What an interesting discussion! I would rather believe there is a part of us that continues after death....why not? It is comforting to me, and I am hoping I see my loved ones then. If I go off into oblivion, I wouldn't know anyway, so why not hope? And yes, I think we all have our own perceptions of heaven and of hell (mine is of 3 oboes playing a quarter tone out of tune!!!!) and that is actually a good thing. It doesn't have to be the same exact heaven.

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Religion is a madhouse of ideas. It's believing one singular person's word and everyone in the sect believes this one idea. It's really confusing and people have explained it to me before in hundreds of different ways.

Lacuna Coil once said: "Heaven's a lie" and...although I believe in Heaven, that's true. Heaven as we all see it...pearly gates, clouds, everyone who led a good life chillin' on cloud nine...that's a lie. As bronzie said, no one can imagine what it's going to be like.

I want to believe that I'm going to see my family...the ones who passed away...but I don't know if I will. I've sinned. I've sinned deeply and if I were to die tomorrow, I would go to hell by some standards. But heaven would be empty if you had to have a flawless record to get into heaven.

I'm pretty sure the Bible says somewhere that the Lord, though we may repeatedly sin against Him, will always embrace us and forgive us. It's a wonderful thought but how can that solve anything? Sin. "Please, Lord, forgive me." Sin. It's a cycle that on your death bed, you might wish to break and strive for heaven. What about those wonderful people who have done so much good but don't believe in God. Those who sinned before they died and didn't have a chance but were good people otherwise.

I could go on but I'm going to stop and sleep. May come back and edit...maybe
What a fascinating post :good: Personally, I don't think it has as much to do with sin as with following God. EVERYONE sins. No matter how good a person, every single person on earth in the history of mankind has sinned, with the exception of Jesus. But then that's what Jesus' sacrafice was supposed to be for, to give the ability to forgive sins.

As I said earlier, I don't believe that every good person gets into heaven. In the religion I was raised in, the belief is that if a person led a good life, they don't go to heaven, but later on will be resurrected again on earth when it's a paradise, after the prophecy of the Apocolypse takes place (hopefully you know that part of the bible because it'd take awhile to explain :erm:) And if there were good people out there, but didn't believe in god, it depends if they actually had a chance to see what god really is supposed to be. If they weren't taught anything properly about God, how can they be descriminated against for not knowing any better? Those are the ones that are supposed to be brought back, but the ones that WERE given something to go on, but rejected it, that aren't. But they don't go to hell, when they're finnished their life, they just stay that way.

[Keita]

Very interesting discussion! :good:

I've wrestled with this one myself for quite a while but my perspective is a bit different. You see, my family and I have somewhat differing opinions of how to live a good life. For me, the question is whether I want to spend eternity living the life as my folks envision it or whether the way I see it is correct. If their version of life after the Apocalypse is correct, then I want no part of it. It just sounds too controlling and rigid. My beliefs mirror Bronzie's in many ways.

As for losing your memory to erase pain, I don't like that, but then, I don't think that that is what will happen. Our memories are one of the things that make us what we are. Lose that, and we're not the people we were. No. What I think is that we'll be comforted and allowed to find new happiness. We all have that capacity, to eventually come to terms and begin anew. And isn't that what "the afterlife", be that in heaven or on earth, is all about?

[Sophia Caligo]

<--- The Semi-Catholic person steps up to bat....

I think it would be very boring if everything was perfect. God didn't make us perfect and so the perfect paradise for us is one in which we would be able to learn more.

But I believe we need contrast in order to appreciate anything. So I think Heaven and Hell just might occupy the same spot. The Heaven people would generally have it good but occasionally get hurt, or sad, or something. Hell people would occasionally be happy. And in order for the Heaven or Hell people to feel the opposite they need to be in the presence of each other.

Either way Heaven and Hell is another school which we must go to, learn to be better individuals and strive to be better. Or at least find our true selves.

I believe that there is a God. And a Heaven. And a Hell, and even a supreme evil dude ruling in hell.

But if they occupy the same space it just might be nicely chaotic. :P

[Aurelia]

What a fascinating post :good: Personally, I don't think it has as much to do with sin as with following God. EVERYONE sins. No matter how good a person, every single person on earth in the history of mankind has sinned, with the exception of Jesus. *snip*

Whether a person "sins" or not depends on that person or their religion's defenition of sinning. I don't know much about Christianity, as I'm Jewish, but what about Abraham? He never committed a sin in the context of his own society and G-d's requests for him.

[Bronze-Dragonrider]

Whether a person "sins" or not depends on that person or their religion's defenition of sinning. I don't know much about Christianity, as I'm Jewish, but what about Abraham? He never committed a sin in the context of his own society and G-d's requests for him.
The Bible didn't emphasise EVERY aspect of What Abraham or anyone else did, what they did every day of their life, what they said, what they thought... it only bracketed the major events that needed telling. If it had a profile of EVERYTHING that had ever happened in their life, you would find that they each sinned many times. He was a very faithful man, but that doesn't mean that he was flawless.

[Weyrwoman Kalina]

What is Heaven, or Paradise, or whatever the after life might hold without the people you love? If I couldn't be surrounded by those I care about, why bother? It wouldn't be right without them.

[leahiniowa]

In Judiasm, we're taught that there are two types of after-life. A little similar to what Bronzie says. There is Gan Eden (the Garden of Eden in a spiritual sense) which is temporary until the coming of Moshiach. This is a spiritual existence and basically is a reward for Torah Study. It is only a soul thing, so being together with your family is not really so pertinent. If people have "sinned" and not repented, they have a stain on their soul, and must undergo Gehinnom which is a deep burning shame. The longest time a wicked person will be there is for 11 months. In Gan Eden, people basically study Torah and sing praises to G-d.

In the World to Come (Olam Haba), this happens during the time of Moshiach. Moshiach is a man who is a Jewish king. At this time, all souls will be reunited with their bodies (and in the case of reincarnation, well, souls cross dimensions and time/space). Both body and soul will be judged and either punished or rewarded according to their ACTIONS. From what I have read, you'd have to be pretty darn bad to be punished severely. Other than that, we live on the earth and reap the rewards of our efforts to behave in a decent way.

Obviously, I believe that most people WILL inherit the world to come. So I'm not too worried about my family coming.

HOWEVER, this idea of heaven w/o loved ones could also be a metaphor for other things. Would you give up the presence of your loved ones for __________ ( fill in the blanks). And my answer is no, I wouldn't.

[Madrigal]

As for losing your memory to erase pain, I don't like that, but then, I don't think that that is what will happen. Our memories are one of the things that make us what we are. Lose that, and we're not the people we were. No. What I think is that we'll be comforted and allowed to find new happiness. We all have that capacity, to eventually come to terms and begin anew. And isn't that what "the afterlife", be that in heaven or on earth, is all about?

If my memory were wiped of the people I care about--there'd be gaps of entire years, really. Without memories one in particular... I wouldn't remember very many things that aren't wholly good. Nor would I remember how I got to be who I am. So, in that case, 'I' wouldn't be going to Heaven, because I wouldn't be me.

As for losing loved ones there--I wouldn't go. I'm not interested in comfort, or new happiness. Sorry, but I've had enough of loss. I wouldn't want to go through 'beginning anew'--which probably wouldn't be easy--without them.

[Valihi Wingsecond]

Simple: if the people I love aren't there, it isn't heaven, and I'm not going.

Actually, this sort of reminds me of a strenuous (not hard, but stressful) decision I had to make a week ago. Off to start a new thread! :D

[jinnjinn]

I'm in a small, rectangular room. One of the smaller walls is open to the air, and looks out on a beach, where there is a fair number of people and in the distance on the sand is a wide black bridge, that stretches in two sections, up into the sky. This, I am told is the bridge that leads to heaven. Getting back to the room. There are "officials" there, with forms they are handing out to people to fill out to be "allowed" to go up that bridge and into heaven. I'm there with several other people I know, but none of my family. I watch as these people I know fill out the forms, and get ready to leave, and all I can say over and over to them is "what about your - husband, wife, children" that is, family!? They don't answer me, and I can't seem to get an answer from anyone else as to whether this is the "only" chance to go to heaven or if there will be other opportunities. So, I decide I'm not going. The dream moved off to something else then, but it's been on my mind all day.

Well here can I have a shot a this dream?

The crossing of the black bridge indicates transistion into sadness or depression. The guard or 'offical' indicates is a sign that you are worried about losing some or you are being kept from something you desire. As with the 'heaven' aspects, it is something that you are aiming for, say like a better job, or contentment and peace.

That is all I could find in translating. Basiclly I think it is saying that there maybe a a desision to make where it might lead to some sadness and it holds you back a little. But by going down this path it help you to achive a goal that you have been going for.

anyway that is what my book says ^^; you dont have to listen to it.

Here's a thought. If you believe in a heaven/after life, and were offered a chance to go, but for some unknown reason the ones you loved were going to be left behind, would you go? I think I'd rather be snuffed out and gone in oblivion than spend eternity missing the people I love. Any opinions?

I belief in reincarnation. Otherwise it would get to squashy if souls all stay in one place where ever you go in the next life. As in would I missed my loved ones? Well... to me they wouldnt be there for they would have already been given a new body and life to live. so in knowing that I am happy *shrug* so no, I don't think I would miss them too much because I would probably have a new fresh life and adventure in front of me as they probably would. That probably sounds selfish, but I find it difficult to write what I am thinking.