A Bit Over-Zealous, Aren't We???

[Masterharper57]

Ok, this REALLY bites, and I need to vent. :mad: :mad:

A week ago yesterday, (Tuesday March 7th), the mother of one of my students died suddenly (he also rides my bus). The little boy was a 1st grader (1st year student, 7 years old) and he was the one who found his mom - in bed. According to what I've heard from other students, he called someone and said, "I can't get my mom to wake up".

Someone calls the boy's daddy, and 911. The dad gets home from work just about the time the emergency folks get there. At the same time, the sherriff's deputies arrive. For some reason, the run a check of the dad, and lo and behold, there are some outstanding warrants on him. So, what do they do? Do they tell the dad that he needs to get them taken care of ASAP?? Do they ask him to come in for them at a later date??? HELL NO ! ! ! They arrest him right there, with his little boy clinging to him.

THIS SUCKS, folks. Those of you who know me know that I generally back the police force to the hilt. I'm extremely conservative and have little empathy for those who break the law. Even when I got busted awhile back, I wasn't asking for sympathy or favors. I just wanted to get it over with so I could get back to my reasonably, out-sane, what passes for 'normal' like.

But, the little kid had just lost his mom. He is one of our lower-functioning kiddos, so I'm not 100% convinced that he even completely understood what was happening. All he knew was that him mom was sick and needed help, and that he was SCARED ! ! ! So, the single-braincell deputies we hve here make the matters much worse. Now, grandma, an aunt, and his teachers are left to pick up the pieces.

Man ! ! ! Sometimes I think were deliberately making sure our kiddos have no chance.................

[granath]

That really sucks! I feel sorry for the poor kid. What were those warrants for, and why hadn't the father been picked up before?

[Faren]

Sometimes I think that common sense has gone the way of the dinosaur.:banghead:

So sorry for the little guy.:sad:

[Bamy]

Poor little thing :sad: Some people just don't THINK with the proper braincells...:irked:

[Chaotic Rat Army]

kicks them. . . . .hard. Errgh, what happened to the kid, I mean, he was the one that needed his da, it wasn't as if the poor man was going to run away. . . .was he?

[Nenwen]

guy gets home from work therefore he had a job and a kid who now desperately needed him.

Are we accurate in assuming these coppers have even a single braincell? Or are we making a collective a$$ of ourselves by such an assumption?

[Silver]

If it could be verified that he was at work when she died and had a child that needed his care WHY did they take him? Idiots the whole lot of 'em. glad Yonuh decided not to be one!

[John]

I gotta play devils advocate here.

The question is, what are the warrants for?? Depending on that, it could be he was deemed as a threat to society. Perhaps the death of the mother could call into question of HOW she died. In that case if it was deemed a homocide, they already have the father in custody if it is determined he or something he did caused her death. I wouldn't pass judgement on the police right away though. If his warrants were for parking tickets or something stupid like that, then yeah, the police used poor judgement. It just all depends on the need to remove him from civilization. It just doesn't matter if his wife just died. If he is a violent person, something like that could set him off on a rampage. If he is a drunk, on a drinking and driving binge. A drug user? Same thing. It no doubt would put him in a bad frame of mind.
If he is a threat to society due to those warrants, then the police did the right thing. It sucks, but warrants are for something he is trying to avoid in the court system, therefore heans.s negligent.

Poor kid anyway. :(

[Bobbsy]

I don't always agree with John on things but in this case, as I read through the thread, I had a post very similar to his mentally composed by the time I got the the bottom.

A very important part of the story, which we don't know, is what the warrants were for. If they were for outstanding parking tickets, as John uses in his example, then obviously the police were stupid and insensitive. However, they could also have been for violent crime or drug offences, in which case the police could have deemed the child to be in danger if the father was left there with him alone.

Since we simply don't know this important bit of background, I'll skip comment on the police actions and simply express my deep sympathy for the poor young lad.

Bobbsy

[Draco]

A lot of misdemeanor offenses fall into the area "if you happen to find this guy arrest him, but don't waste time looking for him." Usually he wouldn't be arrested for outstanding traffic warrants, unless they involved failure to appear on charges like DUI, or if he had a few thousand dollars in unpaid traffic tickets, where the amount of money owed makes it impossible to ignore further.

95 times out of 100, if the police arrested him under these circumstances, he had something serious enough to make it impossible to give him a "pass". Sounds like you're just a little too close to this one (knowing the boy and all) to see objectively. Take a step back and look again, then let us know what you find out.

[jjmouse]

I'm going with the cops on this one too. There are a lot of folks out there with outstanding warrents. The local papers post them all the time. For all we know, the outstanding charges include domestic violence charges, and the reason the kid's mother is dead is because the dad beat her.

A woman with a 7 year kid is dead. Until it is determined that this woman died of natural causes, her death is suspicous circumstances.


There was a similar occurance here. The so called caring father was recently convicted of murder.

:shrug: I feel bad for the kid. Mom dead, dad in jail. :(

[B`dgyr]

To heck with the cop debate, lets try and see what we could possibly do for this poor kid, shall we?
Harper, is it possible for us to send toys/money/clothing/something to help this poor family to you? Or can you find out if this family has a church we could send things to for them?
PM me or email me.
B`dgyr

[Master Harper Andrea]

I love the last suggestion! Let's see what we can do for the kid.

[Masterharper57]

I'll see what I can find out about helping him. His grandparents are taking care of him right now.

In Texas: Misdemeanor warrants are usually now "looked for", meaning that the cops don't go looking for someone, but will arrest him/her if they happen to find them.

As near as I can find out, the warrants were for a speeding ticket and failure to appear for the speeding ticket.

Macer, I think these particular cops are sharing a braincell.

John, Bobbsy, et al: usually I would agree with the cops. I am very pro-police and have almost always supported their decisions. But, this instance called for some common sense to be applied, something the sherriff's deputies in this county seem have in very short supply. This isn't the 1st time they have been accused of "lack of common sense". Several complaints have been filed against them and the dept. with various civil rights groups.

Clarification: The dad was called home from work because someone told him his wife was very ill. He'd only been at work a coule of hours. As to who called him, I don't know. Sorry for the confusion.

Later, all. RLS

[Master Harper Andrea]

Hey just let us know if we can do anything...

[B`dgyr]

what MHA said

[John]

I'll see what I can find out about helping him. His grandparents are taking care of him right now.

In Texas: Misdemeanor warrants are usually now "looked for", meaning that the cops don't go looking for someone, but will arrest him/her if they happen to find them.

As near as I can find out, the warrants were for a speeding ticket and failure to appear for the speeding ticket.

Macer, I think these particular cops are sharing a braincell.

John, Bobbsy, et al: usually I would agree with the cops. I am very pro-police and have almost always supported their decisions. But, this instance called for some common sense to be applied, something the sherriff's deputies in this county seem have in very short supply. This isn't the 1st time they have been accused of "lack of common sense". Several complaints have been filed against them and the dept. with various civil rights groups.

Clarification: The dad was called home from work because someone told him his wife was very ill. He'd only been at work a coule of hours. As to who called him, I don't know. Sorry for the confusion.

Later, all. RLS



Ok, well in most states warrants are like that, unless they are deemed dangerous and need to get off the streets.
In this case the cops were real fizzzukas' about the warrant. However it still could have been that they didn't know what kind of death this was......sickness, suicide, or homocide, at that time so if the husband has warrants, at least get HIM incarcerated in case he could turn into a suspect. Yeah pretty damn harsh by the cops. However this is becoming a very harsh world where husbands routinely kill their wives. Cops are too much "guilty until proven innocent" minded nowadays.

Glad the kid has his grandparents or some other family to stay with. He is still young enough not to let this haunt him too bad the rest of his life. It all depends on how it is explained to him what happened to his mom.

[Greenrider Tresa]

Good grief! Even if they were afraid the dad would bolt they fcould have made sure the boy was with another relative and wouldn't see what they did first!
Sometimes I'm of two minds about cops...
But I'm always of a mind not to get on their bad side! ;)

[leahiniowa]

Texas justice can be different from that of other places. I know, I grew up there. Now I live in Iowa. ;)

[Brenda]

Now I live in Iowa. ;)Yeah... it took me a looong time to realize that your username also describes where you live!

[Master Harper Andrea]

Hey, Iowa is a nice state...I have relatives there.

[Masterharper57]

:evil: Y'all KNOW what Iowa stands for, don't you????????????? ;) :D :D

[Chaotic Rat Army]

PEople just don't want to be nice anymore. Makes me wonder on the colour of the dads skin. Not that it should affect aything, but hey, it is an issue.
Even here in the last couple of years, there have been riots over on Palm Island, an aboriginal community, when a local guy died in police lock up. It is sad, and it leaves me rather cynical to see that even now, the colour of peoples skin is what is seen first. A lot of people that I talk to are like 'who cares, it's only another ******'. All I can think is that I care.
By a chancy fluke of genitics, my sibs and I were born fair. Our Grandad is half Javanese and half aboriginal Australian. My young cousin is absolutely beautiful, but everyday she gets taunted at school because she looks so much like Grandads side.

This is a little offf topic, but it makes me wonder, if race was an issue in this case.

[leahiniowa]

Hey, Iowa is a nice state...I have relatives there.

And friends!!!

[Bobbsy]

My favourite non-fiction author (Bill Bryson) comes from Iowa. He describes it as a "good place to be from". I wonder what he means by that? :evil:

Bobbsy

[Master Harper Andrea]

He might mean it is a wholesome, family-type place. Farms and all (although a pig farm in summer is quite the nose burner). Not all of it is flat, either.

My relatives live down by Cedar Rapids.

And now this thread is thoroughly :ot:

[Mausey]

Sounds like the police were a triffle over zealous in this case. :roll: Dragging a parent away from a grieving child over a couple parking tickets? I can see if they were warrents for abuse or something serious, but parking tickets. Hope the kid and his dad get their lives back together soon. :sad:

[Orianna]

Was anything written up in local paper as to these events? A lot of egg can be spread on faces for something like this. Total lack of compassion it appears to be.

[maygirl]

Regardless of the reason for the outstanding warrants, it would not have taken much to have organised the father's arrest out of sightof the child.
Police have a job to do and a hard one, but for me part of that is serving the community. A few seconds thought and consideration would have eased that child's anguish and would have cost them nothing.
My family's thoughts are with the little one and the family members caring for him.

[Draco]

My favourite non-fiction author (Bill Bryson) comes from Iowa. He describes it as a "good place to be from". I wonder what he means by that? :evil:

BobbsyFar from.

[KC.]

My cousin and I were 7 when my Auntie Kitty had an Aneurysm and he found her sick in bed. She died within the week. :(

Even though its over 40 years I can still remember Billy knocking on our door saying that the ambulance had come and Mum rushing us to get dressed and out. One of the neighbours (who knew the whole extended family) had told him to come get Mum.

Luckily Billy had a good Dad and two older brothers (as well as numerous aunties and uncles on both sides) to give him the love and support he needed growing up.

I hope this little boy gets his Daddy back soon.

[John]

Corn comes from Iowa. I like corn. I don't really like Iowa. Reminds me too much of Illinois. I don't like Illinois. I was allergic to the corn tassles. Achoo. *sniff*

Soybeans suck to.

Iowa is flat. Like Illinois. I hate Illinois. I hate Iowa.

Florida is more flat than Illinois, but it's warmer here. No corn tassles to sneeze at.

[Chaotic Rat Army]

:blankface: I got hot muggy and allergies to a lot of aussie flora. . . . . . really not in the best place :sad:

[John]

:blankface: I got hot muggy and allergies to a lot of aussie flora. . . . . . really not in the best place :sad:

I am close enough to the ocean to get only that air instead of the flora pollen. So I don't have nearly the allergies I had in Illinois. Or Iowa, Indiana, Wisconsin........Blaah blaah.

[Faren]

The worst pollen here in Florida at the moment is from all the oaks blooming.
Luckily it doesn't bother me.

John, we have been having glorious weather lately, haven't we?:ok:

[Chaotic Rat Army]

sneezes. . . I'm allergic to wattle. . . .and mango flowers :sneezes: wouldn't be so bad if it didn't end up infecting sinuses. . . .. . . grrs.

Wish I could see that, the oaks blooming, I mean.

[Master Harper Andrea]

Being from the Midwest, I think Iowa is OK and gets a bad rap. I said before, it's not all flat. There are some very pretty parts to it. And the people are very friendly, as a whole. But to each his own.

[Nenwen]

Oh yeah, this thread has long since been hijacked.

MH57, what's the latest on the little boy? Any ideas yet on how we can help?

[Masterharper57]

Nenwen, We've been on Spring Break this week, so I don't have any up-to-date info. When we get back on Monday (the 20th), I'll do some checking.

Thanks for caring, to all of you.

[John]

Oh yeah, this thread has long since been hijacked.

MH57, what's the latest on the little boy? Any ideas yet on how we can help?

Well I think we figured since MH57 contributed to that side conversation that it was ok. Not much more you can say in this thread, Nenwen. :roll: MH57 will update people on the boy when he has it.

[Chaotic Rat Army]

hijaked. . .:erm: :runaway:

[leahiniowa]

I live 20 miles from the Mississippi. Not flat. Gorgeous. I grew up in Houston and have had enough of warm tropical heat. As other people have said, to each their own. I have a good friend who LOVES Florida.

Back to the topic, I was just remembering about when a friend of mine was brutally raped, mutilated and murdered. (In front of her two year old.) When one of the older kids came home (they were all under the age of 9) he couldn't get in the house so a neighbor lifted him up so he could look into the window and see if he could see his mother. He did.

That happened 15 years ago and I am still traumatized by it. That whole week Pesha Leah was killed not one of us women in our community in Brooklyn did anything but sit around in each others' kitchens freaking out. I had "Pesha Leah nightmares" for years.

Poor kid. Poor kids.

[Chaotic Rat Army]

:hugs: That is like my eldest step nephew telling me about his nightmares kept having about the car accident that killed his ma. He kept saaying over and over "but it was my fault. I let go of her dress,"
Kids remember and link actions together in such a way as that they always nearly end up feeling guilty. To what extent does depend on the differant stages of development.

What is to say that this kid isn't going to associate his mothers death, his dad being taken away and him not being able to do anything about it as being his fault Because he couldn't do anything about it.

So, Piaget explains it better then me. . . .

[Masterharper57]

As long as it's remembered what this thread WAS about, I'm not too concerned about it "drifting" away from the original topic. After all, I can always:

1) Bring it back to the topic,

2) Start a new thread about it,

3) Rant an rave about my thread being "Hijacked" and generally making an ass of myself. Since I've already got the 1st Place Championship trophy for being the "Person Most Likely to Rant & Rave Over Minor Issues", I think I'll pass on this one. ;) :D

Seriously, no problem here. When I get the info, I'll certainly be happy to pass it on to y'all.

AND............. since no one took me up on my question, "Y'all DO know what Iowa stands for, don't ya??"............... I guess I'll just have to tell you:

IOWA =

Idiots
Out
Walking
Around

Hehehehehehehehehehehehe.............. ;) :D :evil:

Now, a friend of mine who was born and raised in Iowa told me that one. Take care, friends. Robin

[B`dgyr]

MH57,
please do let us know if and when you find out what we can do for this child. I for one am very concerned, and more than willing to send $$ or toys or clothes. Not knowing the child's family's faith preference, while I am willing to send religious things, I would like to know if they're Christians or Muslims or Jewish or Hindu or whatever.

[Nenwen]

:bump:

[Master Harper Andrea]

Wow. Some of the crap that kids have to go through. And seeing them do it, I wonder at their resilience. Kids are amazing.

It is scary to think that a trucker might be out on the road high. (I am thinking back to this October when the 22 yr old truck driver turned his truck and the bus crashed into it, etc.) I totally agree that I hope no donations get used to support his habit. It's ok MH also about not knowing the whole story. At least you are filling us in as you can.

Poor kid...whatever we can do, let us know. And that is so sweet of him to want an angel.

[pammie]

That the little fellow wanted to buy an angel for his mom made me cry and hug MC really tight. But your comments about how much they understand is right on the money.

I really lost it on MC when he broke our only living room lamp yesterday. He went for a nap, as did I. He was still an emotional wreck about it after he woke up. I really had to work to get him out of his funk. Told him, yes, mommy was really angry, but it was an accident and he's okay so it's over, blah, blah, blah.

Gods, what we put our children through. :(

[leahiniowa]

I've been reading many years about truck drivers taking methamphetamines and other "uppers" so as to meet their schedules. I personally think this is what fuels the rage people find themselves the victims of on the highway. Once when driving in Pennsylvania, I found myself boxed in with a truck in front of me, one behind me, and two on the right hand side of me. I still don't know why the driver behind me was so ticked off, but he was about 2 feet behind my van. And I was driving with 6 kids in the car, one an infant of about 3-4 months old.

It wasn't until I was able to squeeze into the right hand lane and began chasing him with my cell phone in my hand that he and the other truckers backed off. Unfortunately, it was an area in the Poconos where the cell phone was not working.

About a week later I read that some man had been smashed and incinerated in a similar incident in almost the exact same situation.

[Masterharper57]

Okay, folks. All those who wanted to help..........................

I finally got ahold of the little boy's grandmother (his dad's mom) and got a little background info. What I've found out actualy makes my decision a little easier.

The dad is not only a druggie, but is mostly "disabled". He does drive a truck sometimes, but it's strictly a cash-only operation. Not something I want to delve into. The grandmother is also the grandmother of another of my students, and I've dealt with her before. She's not into education a whole lot, and also seems to always be short of money.

We did discuss the little boy and his needs. She felt that because of his size (he's a BIG kid for a 1st grader/1st year), and the differences in sizing between countries, clothing and shoes probably wouldn't be pratical. And, she said that he seems to have every toy known to mankind. Sooooooooooooooo................... that leave monetary donations. Now, I'm usually pretty suspicious when folks ask for cash ("Will work for Food" doesn't work for me. I'll buy 'em a meal first...........). If there ARE cash donations, I want to make SURE that the little boy gets them, not the dad, or the rest of the extended family.

My thoughts are this: Establish some sort of trust fund through a local bank. The boy could get whatever funds are in there for college expenses when he turns 18, OR get the fund in it's entirity when he turns 21. To HOPEFULLY remove any risk to him from family, his CLASS would be named as beneficiary in the event something happens to him. God Forbid, but we all know there are some real sickos out there.

Anyone who has offered to help, please contact me via a pm/e-mail. I know that many in here do not like folks asking for money and I most certainly am not - just responding to offers. Let me kno if you have any questions/suggestions/positive feedback. Take care, all. Robin

[Master Harper Andrea]

Thanks MH and that sounds like a good idea. I would be suspiscious of them just asking for money...I'd want to know my money did some good (since I am not made of money myself!). I could definitely go along with a trust fund though.

[Nenwen]

Thanks MH and that sounds like a good idea. I would be suspiscious of them just asking for money...I'd want to know my money did some good (since I am not made of money myself!). I could definitely go along with a trust fund though.


The trust fund idea works for me too. Let me know when it's established and where to send my check so it gets properly deposited. The cost of a college education isn't cheap and it sounds like this little guy is gonna need all the help he can get.

[PsychDyke]

Poor kid. Sounds like the deck is stacked against him for sure. You said he's a little slow? Sounds like something mom took in utero could likely have contributed to that. That and/or parental non-interest in helping with his education. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be even slightly surprised if, in the future, this kid ended up in the system. A common pattern is several years of 'stuff done to them' followed by several years of 'stuff they did'. Sad, but true. Still, a caring teacher has been known to help more than one kid w/o much familial support so, keep on w/ what you're doing.

As for the truck driver thing...there are laws in the U.S. that regulate how long a driver can drive before they must rest. "Rest" is defined by 'not driving', so, the law may say that you have to take 8 hours off, but that almost certainly won't translate to 8 hours of sleep if you have a deadline to make. For the vast majority of Over-the-road (OTR) truck drivers, the rule of thumb is, " if the wheels ain't turning, you ain't earning". In other words, most get paid by the mile and few get pay for anything else. So, if you have to wait for a load to be loaded or unloaded, you're doing it on your own time. This may not be long enough for a nap and/or if you're hooked up to the trailer at the time, the noise and movement may make it difficult or impossible to sleep.

My first run as a truck driver was from Arkansas to San Ysidro, California in 3 days. Now this was with a trainer, however, I was only mildly helpful, never having driven outside of school. That done, we were then assigned to take a load from San Ysidro, CA (go south out of the city limits and you're in Tijuana, Mexico) to Freeport, Maine, for which we were given another 3 days! :eek2: (According to Mapquest, that's about 3100 miles and requires 48 hours of driving.) I was her first trainee and I had about 600 miles and 3 days under my belt driving. This type of thing is not unusual in any way. :irked:

My first solo load, I reported to the terminal around 8 am, I was assigned to a truck and then it was determined that the truck had to have an oil change and a tune up before I could go anywhere. So I sat around for several hours. Since this truck was a 'cab-over', meaning that the engine is under the cab rather than there being a 'nose', I couldn't exactly nap when they were working on it since the cab would be tilted up at a 45 degree angle, that's even assuming I was tired enough to sleep. :banghead: They finally finished late afternoon and then they had to find me a load. I got one to pick up at 6pm and I had to wait a little bit for it to finish loading. I finally got out of town around 7pm-I'd been up since 6am but I hadn't been driving so, legally I'd been resting. :roll: Anyway, this was going to Atlanta and had to be there in about 36 hours. That would've been do able had I not been up all day. As it was, I only got as far as Columbia, MO (about 150 miles) before I was falling asleep. So, I HAD TO drive longer than legally allowed the next day in order to make the appointment. What I had to do then was log that I'd gotten farther before I went to sleep the night before. So, as long as I got to the spot I logged as stopping w/o an officer or DOT official wanting to see my log book, I'd get away with it. However, that kind of neccessity very often leads to very tired truck drivers driving down the road. So they either endanger others by being tired or by being wired to combat the tired.

When I reported to them that I didn't think I could safely take a load in the time required (it had to go through a canyon and it was a load of large spools of wire which are the most likely to break loose and/or shift and cause the trailer to tip over), I'd been driving on my own for a month at the time. Anyway, they ended up firing me. They said I was too emotionally unstable to drive a truck. (I did cry for between 2-5 minutes, and then calmly explained my issues for 45 minutes. Also, my grandmother was dying.) Then they later protested me getting unemployment insurance. :irked: This is actually quite typical of trucking companies. When kids say to me, "I hear that's good money". I quickly disabuse them of the notion. I explain all the expenses you incur that you wouldn't in a 'regular' job that detracts from the money paid. The companies must change their methods, industry-wide if we aren't going to have truckers endangering the general populace regularly. (off :box: ).

Any wonder why, immediately following 6 months of OTR truck driving I moved back in with my mother and enrolled in college? ;)


Peace, Meredith Psy:fiend: